NAM: Neural Amp Modeler

[Sascha Franck]

Fortunately, it's very easy to solve the problem by plugging in a midi controller that suits your application best.. then problem is solved.

You don't see or accept just how absurd these statements are, do you?

 

[Dom Mcsweeney]

I'll share an equivalent example:

Person 1
"Oh this Laptop is great, but the keyboard is sort of okay, and the track pad just isn't doing it for me.
Hmmmmm.... it would be great to have a more ergonomic setup!"

Person 2 -
"Hey, you can easily use external peripheral devices such as ergonomic keyboards and wireless mice!"

Person 1 -
"Awesome, that's great. Problem solved!!"

 

[Sascha Franck]

I'll share an equivalent example:

Person 1
"Oh this Laptop is great, but the keyboard is sort of okay, and the track pad just isn't doing it for me.
Hmmmmm.... it would be great to have a more ergonomic setup!"

Person 2 -
"Hey, you can easily use external peripheral devices such as ergonomic keyboards and wireless mice!"

Person 1 -
"Awesome, that's great. Problem solved!!"

An analogy doesn't become much more valid in case it's a stupid analogy. 99.999% of all people wouldn't buy a laptop to start with in case the keyboard and trackpad sucked. Because it'd defeat one of the main purposes of a laptop.

 

[Sedaxel]

I agree with Sascha, and also don't understand why can't be pointed out the "mistakes" that this unit has.

We all have also praised its good features.

If the unit has 4 footswitches, and there are people suggesting the use of an external controller... It's obvious that those built-in footswitches don't seem all that good designed.

It's a sin to point that out? Nobody is saying that Dimehead is a disaster company. On the contrary, We all said it's a huge effort to make a product like this in a market like this. We all said it's admirable. The same way, We can say there are several subjects which might look like little caveats... But they're a bit more than little caveats for live use.

I don't see the problem in talking about it.

 

[Dom Mcsweeney]

The problem here is that it's clearly a broken record at this point, and this thread shouldn't be derailed by just one person's opinion.
There should be space for all users/members to join in.
It has been repeated ad nauseum here and on several other forums.

"hey, we get it... can we move on yet?"

 

[Sascha Franck]

and this thread shouldn't be derailed by just one person's opinion.

Is it fullmoon already wherever you are? Or are you talking about yourself, Mr. Shill?

It has been repeated ad nauseum here and on several other forums.

Why do you keep lying?

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

 

[PippPriss]

I agree with Sascha, and also don't understand why can't be pointed out the "mistakes" that this unit has.

We all have also praised its good features.

If the unit has 4 footswitches, and there are people suggesting the use of an external controller... It's obvious that those built-in footswitches don't seem all that good designed.

It's a sin to point that out? Nobody is saying that Dimehead is a disaster company. On the contrary, We all said it's a huge effort to make a product like this in a market like this. We all said it's admirable. The same way, We can say there are several subjects which might look like little caveats... But they're a bit more than little caveats for live use.

I don't see the problem in talking about it.

It is absolutely not a problem to talk about it. I even agree to some, or perhaps most points. But I think it is fair, that other people can state why they like the pedal, in the same fashion like others can express their dissatisfaction. However, the pages above I just think was a discussion which totally side-railed, and we can surely agree to disagree.

Weighing in from a more anecdotal angle, and not to counterargument anything, but just show a little bit on how I use the thing: To me personally, the form factor and foot-switch distance is not a big dealbreaker, because I need my channel toggle anyways below my Wah Pedal, since singing + Guitar playing needs to be as stupid-proof as possible:

So maybe, either I am "not qualified" to add to the disucssion, since I am anyways not the target group of whom is affected by such problems, or it shows that every setup is unique, and what is presented to one as an issue is maybe an afterthought for somebody else. I never shed a thought about switch distances, to be honest, because it was clear the day I bought the thing that I will implement a small switcher thingy.

I love the I/O-routing, that you can have an IR-loaded sound and one output without it. I love the fact that you can add a Delay, a Reverb, a Tremolo, and even abuse the Delay to make a chorus out of it. And, a big one for me, I like the gate - in fact, I pushed Dirk to actually have it work similar to a expander/surpressor type thing instead of a hard gate, because the initial implementation was the same old crappy hard gating, not allowing for any sustain. We did like 5 different firmware revisions before I said "yeah that's cool, let's keep that". Before that, my board was way heavier - certainly cooler, because like way more individual, but as you can see, crammed above any healthy measure:

And even going full bang with the ToneX, I still could not give up on an IR loader and the ISP Decimator (and DI Box), because the gate in the ToneX sucks and there is no dual output possibility with different DSP outlets:

So I have been through hell and back with these kind of compact setups. But this might show pretty well, how important the small details of a unit is, and to really assess if it fits the bill for what you need it to do.
But actually I just want an excuse whenever presented to show my board setups, and if it's somewhat related to the topic, even better ;-)

@Sedaxel : Totally different side tangent - you mentioned a few pages before high noise floor on high gain setups. Is it the typical "Computer EMI interference noise", which is like a stingy static digital noise? If yes, what I found to IMMENSIVELY helped, except for distancing yourself further from the electronics and/or shielding your instrument better with copper-tape, is to set your CPU cores of your PC all to the same frequency manually. Both intel and AMD are using these turbo-boost functions excessively, and I find the changing of frequency has an massive impact on the noise-floor and how "wiggely" it is. I might actually do a video on the subject, just to have that info out there for others to check in.

Setting all CPU cores to the same clock, with AMD Ryzen Master e.g., helped massively. In my case a Ryzen 9 5950X set at base frequency of 3.4 GHz is really quiet, when I crank it to 4.4 GHz all core through overclocking, it again becomes to loud, so aiming for middleground is key.
In the end, shielding is the best thing, and re-shielding my guitar made it better enough to not compromise on CPU-functionality, but maybe this is something you can look into :-)

 

[Sascha Franck]

So maybe, either I am "not qualified" to add to the disucssion, since I am anyways not the target group of whom is affected by such problems, or it shows that every setup is unique, and what is presented to one as an issue is maybe an afterthought for somebody else.

All that is completely irrelevant.
It's not about whether *some* people can make the thing work in *some* setups. Without any doubt, that's possible. Heck, I could easily build a great gigging setup around it without purchasing anything else, just using what I already have.
But that is not what the complaints are about. It's all about whether things could've been vastly better in case some things were done differently. And it's not even all that many things. Possibly it wouldn't even add much (if anything) to the production cost - but it'd turn the thing into a much more accessible and flexible unit and hence trigger the interest of a lot more potential users.

 

[laxu]

An analogy doesn't become much more valid in case it's a stupid analogy. 99.999% of all people wouldn't buy a laptop to start with in case the keyboard and trackpad sucked. Because it'd defeat one of the main purposes of a laptop.

I worked for years with a 2016 Macbook Pro 16" and a 60% size mechanical keyboard. This era Macs had the worst keyboards ever made with terrible feel and poor reliability. I would put the 60% keyboard on top of the laptop keyboard, plug in USB which would disable the internal keyboard (thanks to the Karabiner Elements software). Worked fine. That was my solution to an era of Macs where shit keyboards were the only option.

Similarly I could see adding a small MIDI controller to a device that you like but with footswitch spacing/amount that is not practical for you. It's not ideal, but it's a solution.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Similarly I could see adding a small MIDI controller to a device that you like but with footswitch spacing/amount that is not practical for you. It's not ideal, but it's a solution.

Of course. But in my case, that'd only apply in case the device would be *really, really, really* what I needed. Which defenitely doesn't apply to the Dimehead pedal. And I doubt it applies to many other folks.

 

[[Nathan]]

All that is completely irrelevant.
It's not about whether *some* people can make the thing work in *some* setups. Without any doubt, that's possible. Heck, I could easily build a great gigging setup around it without purchasing anything else, just using what I already have.
But that is not what the complaints are about. It's all about whether things could've been vastly better in case some things were done differently. And it's not even all that many things. Possibly it wouldn't even add much (if anything) to the production cost - but it'd turn the thing into a much more accessible and flexible unit and hence trigger the interest of a lot more potential users.

At what point are you just like, shoulda woulda coulda? It’s obvious dimehead are just gonna dimehead. They’re taking on all the risk of starting a business and putting themselves out there. If it all goes belly up you and me don’t lose out on anything they do. I feel like it’s just beating a dead horse at this point. I love criticism as much as the next person but at some point it’s like what’s it going to achieve.

Had my fair share of tonex and tonocracy bashing and I wouldn’t even bother chiming in on those unless someone specifically asked me to, they ain’t changing and it is what it is

 

[Sascha Franck]

It’s obvious dimehead are just gonna dimehead.

Well, maybe they'll consider doing some things differently for a V2.

 

[PippPriss]

So, from I grasp over the last pages, your major complaints are:

- Footswitches to close
- No Encoder Pots

Both of these can be easily dismissed:

- For the footswitches: I know from Dirk, that they were bound to using templated enclosures with some customization. Pretty normal industry practice for small-scale economy. Everything else would have sky-rocketed in price according to him, which I can easily see happening. If you as a musician ever wanted to customize your CD Booklet or anything like that, you know how much you are paying for that additional labor cost.

- Encoder Pots: You like encoders, cool. I hate them with a passion. A necessary evil. I find it great, that the NAM Player did not use them.

Alright, now what? Two of your major gripes are now boiled down to "Well, that's just your (and some others) opinion, dude." We could do this all day long with other points as well, but I am growing tired of it.

This has nothing to do with "awful market research" or anything - it just does not match what you seek in a product playing NAM profiles. Fair enough, we can move on. But don't try to punch holes into peoples arguments and posts, trying to ridicule them as "irrelevant", when they are actually trying to make a point. Don't try to dismiss comparisons to ToneX as "Whataboutism", while you are comparing the NAM Player as well to other units (Line 6 HX Stomp). Don't point out that it looks like people are looking like shills when defending the product, because it could be UNO-reverse-carded by slamming in your face "Show me on this puppet where Dimehead hurt you".

With that said, I will place myself out of this particular segment of the discussion and focus on other segments around NAM, when they come up. It all has been laid out by multiple people, for everybody to read.

 

[2dor]

Speaking of NAM...

 

[Sascha Franck]

- For the footswitches: I know from Dirk, that they were bound to using templated enclosures with some customization.

So which other units are using the same standard enclosures?

- Encoder Pots: You like encoders, cool. I hate them with a passion. A necessary evil. I find it great, that the NAM Player did not use them.

I have no idea why anyone would like parameter jumps.

And besides, there's other issues that have been raised as well. No editor, no audio interface, limited connectivity, just mono operation, etc.

 

[laxu]

- Encoder Pots: You like encoders, cool. I hate them with a passion. A necessary evil. I find it great, that the NAM Player did not use them.

What is it that you don't like about them?

 

[PippPriss]

What is it that you don't like about them?

The tactile feel of most of them (also the Param Knob of the Dimehead) is just simply not for me. I also very much dislike the endless rotary thing. I like hard stops at the start and end, like a pre-defined range. Using encoders, in most cases, you will have to rely in visual cues as well. Absolutely to my disliking.

@Sascha Franck : I am not belittling that there are downsides, as we all have wishlist items.
But the device is what it is, and it is a "take it or leave it" decision at this point, and I am sure you have made yourself recognized, if not even heard by Dimehead by now - by putting in more pressure into your lungs while calling for features you wont make them happen faster - only if a majority of users build up this pressure. You come to the conclusion it may not be for you, other have decided it is. I think it's worth the price of admission given what the competition offers, you come to a totally different conclusion.
We can have civil discussions going on, disagreements, even constructive, hard fights, but dismissing peoples points as irrelevant, calling them out to look like shills just because they strongly disagree and not allowing for comparisons to other products you think are even shittier is simply not a style of conversation I cannot stand behind and do not want to engage with, since we all got better things to do then to bitterly fight over minor changes of a hardware product used in hobbyist rooms, or most often, in semi-professional environments.

On your question of other units using this enclosure size, I cannot give you an answer, I am not the engineer of this pedal. I am not affiliated to the making of this product. I'll have to take word of the person I spoke to. However, the footswitch distance is exactly the same like on other, established products like the HoTone Ampero. These information combined, with some experience building my own pedals, make me believe that there is a standard enclosure size which simply had to be used. It's 3 cm short of a Hammond 1444-14, but all in all very similar in overall dimensions, so maybe something out of their production line? I have no idea if a Hammond 1444-13 exist, but something along those lines would make sense.

Why would people like parameter jumps? Because a resolution of 100 / +50/-50 individual steps is fairly enough for me to dial in an frequency boost/cut. And that is dependant on how fine the resolution of the chip is which is being triggered by the Voltage change (mostly 128 steps). If I get the tactile feel of a "real potentiometer" over that of an encoder, I can anytime easily live with that compromise.

The most important thing here, for all of these experiences, assessments, conclusions is to note and recognize, that your mileage may vary.

 

[laxu]

The tactile feel of most of them (also the Param Knob of the Dimehead) is just simply not for me. I also very much dislike the endless rotary thing. I like hard stops at the start and end, like a pre-defined range. Using encoders, in most cases, you will have to rely in visual cues as well. Absolutely to my disliking.

A lot of devices use encoders with little steps on them but this does not have to be the case. For example the ones on my Hydrasynth feel like regular knobs to turn and the visual cues for zero or max values work well enough to "feel" like you have reached the extremes.

To me it solves so many problems of digital control that it should be the standard for anything that has a display and uses it to represent preset values.

 

[Sascha Franck]

by putting in more pressure into your lungs while calling for features you wont make them happen faster

Rest assured, my lungs are in excellent condition.

However, the footswitch distance is exactly the same like on other, established products like the HoTone Ampero.

I doubt that. Green box is a placeholder for the Dimehead:

Gotta cram 4 switches instead of 3 into the same width.

Why would people like parameter jumps? Because a resolution of 100 / +50/-50 individual steps is fairly enough for me to dial in an frequency boost/cut.

The latter doesn't have anything to do with parameter jumps.
Parameter jumps = when you call up a preset and touch a knob, the programmed parameter will *have to* jump to the parameter of the knob. That's a very unpleasant thing to deal with (even if there's various ways to tackle the issue, such as "soft takeover" - but non of them makes it a good idea).

If I get the tactile feel of a "real potentiometer" over that of an encoder, I can anytime easily live with that compromise.

There's only a difference in tactile feel if you're not using the right components. Decent encoders deliver the same excellent feel as a knob.