Multi's, noise floor, front of valve amp (QC/Axe3/Stadium)

[EOengineer]

I had hella issues using 4cm with the OG Helix floor and HXFX. The HXFX would hiss uncontrollably with certain amps or gain structures, and both devices seemed to change the way the guitar was hitting the front of the amp no matter how attentive I was to levels and routing.

The majority of my effects go through the front of the amp so I lived with it for a couple years without 4CM. I think if I needed heavy post FX at this point I’d either proxy my amp’s preamp and run Stadium into the FX return, or just go full digital and grab a matrix amp.

 

[James Freeman]

One has to be extra aware of proper gain staging in high gain situations.

Most audio equipment like audio interfaces and modelers use opamps at the outputs which have some self noise, that amount of self noise boosted by 70dB via multiple gain stages is not going to be as quiet as absolute ground.
Personally I am not a fan of 4 cable method for this exact reason.

In my experience most noise suppression/gate pedals raise the noise floor when closed, which is why I don't like using them either with high gain.
BOSS pedals bypass topology use transistors and jfets which don't add as much noise when bypassed as opamps.
In my ever changing setup before high gain amps it is either one boost like an SD-1 or true bypass pedals for when I'm playing clean, I'm very aware of noise floor.

 

[Jarick]

I had hella issues using 4cm with the OG Helix floor and HXFX. The HXFX would hiss uncontrollably with certain amps or gain structures, and both devices seemed to change the way the guitar was hitting the front of the amp no matter how attentive I was to levels and routing.

The majority of my effects go through the front of the amp so I lived with it for a couple years without 4CM. I think if I needed heavy post FX at this point I’d either proxy my amp’s preamp and run Stadium into the FX return, or just go full digital and grab a matrix amp.

I also had issues with HXFX noise, even with noise gates those didn't impact the hiss going into the amp. And then I also had noise issues with Helix LT running 4CM with a Fender Bassbreaker amp but that may have been more on the amp than anything.

 

[mbenigni]

Actually, hearing the Axe III with the noise-gate turned off and the boost/pad turned off, has mellowed my attitude towards the QC a bit. No one could argue that the Axe III is appreciably better than the QC when you don't use those features.

This is an argument I've made for years, whenever someone starts comparing noise floors on digital devices. Many of them seem to have gates or noise reduction algorithms embedded throughout their signal path, which sets unrealistic expectations in terms of s/n versus gain. But this is speculative - something I infer as a listener. (And with FAS there's the added variable of never quite knowing WTF I'm doing LOL.)

 

[mbenigni]

Yeah a 1:1 isolator box should fix it. But honestly, I got one of those EM midi switchers for that job anyway.

(I still have an EM MIDI switcher for MkV, from when I owned a MkV for 5 minutes, in case anyone wants to buy it for cheap?)

 

[mbenigni]

The majority of my effects go through the front of the amp so I lived with it for a couple years without 4CM. I think if I needed heavy post FX at this point I’d either proxy my amp’s preamp and run Stadium into the FX return, or just go full digital and grab a matrix amp.

Every time I wire up a 4cm rig lately, I'm back to this sort of arrangement within a matter of days.

 

[laxu]

(I still have an EM MIDI switcher for MkV, from when I owned a MkV for 5 minutes, in case anyone wants to buy it for cheap?)

I might be interested! Which part of the planet did you live on again? It's most likely not worth it for me to have it shipped from the US (taxes, shipping costs) but maybe from within EU...

 

[mbenigni]

I might be interested! Which part of the planet did you live on again? It's most likely not worth it for me to have it shipped from the US (taxes, shipping costs) but maybe from within EU...

Alas, I am indeed in the US. I may have another buyer, but if not then I'll start investigating just how much cost/hassle it would be to chuck it over the pond. I may be willing to assume both.

OK, closing out my "should have been a classified" subtopic. Looks like JT has taken the bait.