Marshall Amps Sold

It’s sad because from a tone perspective there’s nothing out there I love more. I went through a Tweed phase, then Blackface, then Vox and when I finally found Marshall it was the perfect balance between the two I’d always wanted.

But they seem so stuck in the past with all their offerings these days. They aren’t keeping up with new developments in modern amps, not incorporating new features players are starting to expect, and not offering anything new.

So I’m not surprised to see this. It’s like they got management who decided not to invest in the brand and rather just ride the cash cow into the ground, sell it, and move on. Sad
 
The JVM was the last good thing they did really, and that was 2007. The Satriani model should have been a regular model, and they should have continued to innovate; a new modern 4 channel high-gainer from Marshall with built in IR loading, loadbox functionality, etc etc etc. It would be great.

And someone at Marshall has their head on straight, coz they've tried things over the years (Softube collaboration for example) that were pretty interesting.

But the last decade or so??? ehhhh....
 
maybe i’m just cynical but I feel like Marshall would have a hard time selling a new amp model in bigger numbers than the reissue stuff, or even to a point that it makes sense to go through. JVM mark 2 feels like the most obvious place to look to add more features, but I think Santiago is the only person who should be allowed to implement any changes to that amp.

I can’t remember fully but when the JVM was released, was the reissue Jubilee’s and 2203’s out yet?

Vintage Modern sort of flopped because people didn’t really understand what it is or why they need it (especially in amongst the other amps in the lineup that all sound similar). Astoria tanked hard.

Maybe it would be cool if they made limited runs of different circuit variations of super leads and also did reissues of the different cosmetics over the year. Would probably be quite cool to see some of the small headcab/large headcab, early 60’s, late 70’s etc designs that came up.
 
The Studio amps were pretty much something designed to be cheaper and that's about it. They don't really solve anything else as they are almost as loud as the 50 watters while IMO sound/feel worse. I'd rather buy a higher power amp with better power scaling from some other brand. But the Studio Marshalls seem to sell well so why go any further?

Of course, Marshall, like Gibson, is in a position where people mostly want their classic models and the sound of those. They've released some good products that came to the market at the wrong time - like the Vintage Modern at the peak of "just like they used to do them" Plexi clones from other brands.

What Marshall has never managed to do is make amps that sound like people expect those amps to sound like. A lot of Marshalls tend to be harshs and spitty beasts until you put them in a mix at band levels and it all makes more sense. Friedman and Bogner on the other hand managed to make amps that sound like people expect a Marshall to sound, at almost any volume. I feel my BluGuitar Amp 1 Mercury Edition manages those sounds and the classic Marshall tones in one tiny box.

If I were put in the decision making seat for Marshall, I'd probably do some of this:
  • Cut down the lineup to just a few categories: "beginner/budget", "working man" and vintage reissues. I feel they make too many models atm to the point that the lineup is confusing.
  • "Beginner range" is more like the Orange Crush or Boss Katana. Solid-state or digital amps that sound actually good unlike the MG range. Maybe a few digital fx.
  • "Working man" range would be amps based on the DSL40 and JVM210 as 40W and 100W options. Add better power scaling so they can actually go down to "cranked at home" levels (and make the need for 1W, 20W etc models redundant). 1x12 combos and heads. Offer two identical channels on the JVM but with the ability to select between all the voicings on either channel. Add a built in adjustable boost and IR loader to the JVM. Why no 4 channel model? I think that's too much complication and 2 channels + boost covers anything you'd need.
  • Drop the JCM900 from the vintage reissue lineup. I can't remember anyone mentioning they bought that over a JCM800, 1987X or Jubilee.
I have no idea if this would be a viable business decision. At least in Europe I feel as an all tube amp, the DSL40 combos are cheap enough that there is no need to offer anything in a price range below that. It's probably by far their most popular tube amp atm.
 
the-trooper said:
Or, make something new and useful that people actually want?
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What is it that people want with a Marshall that doesn't already exist? I agree with @laxu 's post above - they pretty much cover everything people expect from them already, except really nailing the "same sound at lower volume" thing. A few models could benefit from some tweaks, but is there something REALLY obvious that they could manufacture and sell in high numbers?

I think they have a pretty big problem right now with getting their prices in America under control - I wonder if that'll lead to a reissue model being made abroad to see if itll sell well if its not made in UK
 
Era ended.

Wonder how fast vintage Marshall stuff will skyrocket in price now.
 
the-trooper said:
Pretty sure there is, but that's where a multi-million company should use market research and marketing experts, not that Trooper knob from forums.
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Hmm, I think for something to sell in enough numbers to justify it, it wouldn't be too hard to think of. The reissue pedals were like that - clear demand already there for them, and no significant R&D costs. Still - if you think there is something you'd like from Marshall that you can't buy yet, I'm curious what would it would take for you to rush to a music store and buy one. My impression is their market research and experts have told them to focus more on brand recognition and diversifying than investing purely in creating and marketing new products constantly.

I think they've probably hit a point where the returns on what it would cost make no sense at all. Would they really expect to sell huge new numbers of a flagship amp? What exactly will differentiate it from a JVM or DSL, or one of the classics?

Even in smaller quantities, whatever they design is either going to tread on the toes of something they've already got in production, or people will say "BUT IT DOESNT SOUND LIKE A MARSHALL". The Origin is not a good amp, probably went through a ton of R&D and headaches to get it to market, and it still does OK. But its absolutely the first on the chopping block because its made redundant by the studio series and smaller DSL's. They really could have just not bothered with that amp, and focussed more on the other lines.

Perhaps what they've done with the DSL line over recent years, where its had small incremental updates is probably the best they can do with their other products. They can continue manufacturing them in the same way, it wont tread on any existing products, keeps interest up and people know what to expect already. Wouldn't cost a bomb for them to implement better FX loops, MIDI, maybe an (optional) reactive load to existing products.

I'd personally LOVE to see Marshall's take on a Smallbox or Runt style amp, but really, would it sell that much to justify it? is it really going to offer something that a DSL or JVM doesn't already do? are people going to understand or differentiate between the differences? Would probably cost a lot to do, and end up confusing their customers.
 
Iron1 said:
Era ended.

Wonder how fast vintage Marshall stuff will skyrocket in price now.
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Doubt it will - the older collectible stuff is built totally different from how Marshall has built anything for decades, so I don't see what changes there. Its not like the number of Plexi's from 1966-68 (or whatever) has suddenly changed. Likewise for any other collectible amp, they're collectible because production stopped decades ago. All the more recently built stuff is built in such huge quantities and will always be less collectible than the old stuff.

That said, people are dumb and the used prices are already so over inflated that its impossible to tell.
 
MirrorProfiles said:
Vintage Modern sort of flopped because people didn’t really understand what it is or why they need it
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It's in the name really.... total contradiction in terms - what fuck does Vintage Modern even mean? To this day, I still can't tell you if that amp is high-gain enough for me.... and that's a marketing failure.
 
laxu said:
  • Drop the JCM900 from the vintage reissue lineup. I can't remember anyone mentioning they bought that over a JCM800, 1987X or Jubilee.
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The JCM900 has a lot of fans actually!

MirrorProfiles said:
What is it that people want with a Marshall that doesn't already exist? I agree with @laxu 's post above - they pretty much cover everything people expect from them already, except really nailing the "same sound at lower volume" thing. A few models could benefit from some tweaks, but is there something REALLY obvious that they could manufacture and sell in high numbers?
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TBH... I don't know what I would want... I started listing a bunch of cool stuff, and then just realised I was cramming loads of shit into a JVM... so what does that tell you...?
 
Orvillain said:
It's in the name really.... total contradiction in terms - what f**k does Vintage Modern even mean? To this day, I still can't tell you if that amp is high-gain enough for me.... and that's a marketing failure.
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Yeah, and the fact it was released around the same time as the JVM which to most users seemed to offer very similar features (and more). And the JVM was marketed as a flagship, and the VM was just something else. Add to that the JVM has a lot of intelligently designed switching and ability to have different modes and channels, where the VM is (confusingly) kind of a one channel amp with different modes.

Vintage Modern should really have been called something along the lines of JTM45 Mod and had something closer to the traditional 4 hole input appearance. Its a JTM45 with an FX loop, master volume, (crap) reverb and then some switchable mods. I dont think they really made any of that clear. I think you'd love the tones from it, but you'd hate the fact its quite limited as far as how many sounds you can get out of it at any one point. It has tons of gain but its quite loose and round rather than hard and aggressive. Its cool, not a million miles away from what the Dirty Shirley does in concept, although perhaps the DS is a better product over all (better master volume, better FX loop, more nicely tuned circuit). VM may be better if you want something closer to a regular JTM45 though (DS is a JCM800 preamp with a JTM45 power section and then some cathode bypass cap options on switches).

I think even if Marshall got all that stuff right, it would have sold more and been more succesful, but still ultimately probably would have failed because it still treads on the toes of tons of their other products, and I'd imagine most users either want the traditional JTM45, or they want something with tons more features like the JVM.
 
How about a dual channel 800/Plexi, (both identical) with a “Jose” mod switch on both channels to add an extra gain stage, power scaling, (50/100 or 25/50) with a built in IR loader, gate, and a master volume?

Or a non $1,800 20w amp?

The idea that there is nowhere else to go doesn’t make sense. An entire subsection of the amp market is “Modded Marshalls that Marshall won’t make”.
 
Whizzinby said:
How about a dual channel 800/Plexi, (both identical) with a “Jose” mod switch on both channels to add an extra gain stage, power scaling, (50/100 or 25/50) with a built in IR loader, gate, and a master volume?
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I’m sure it would be popular (and it’s probably the amp most people want, myself included) but would it really sell in big enough numbers for them to make it worthwhile? It seems more like something Friedman can sell, because their market is based on selling fewer amps to people who are willing to pay more for something they perceive as premium.

Would need to be priced significantly less than what boutique builders offer….

and going back to my other point, DSL already coaxes a pretty dead on 800 and modded plexi (albeit without diodes). A JVM mark 2 that had all that stuff in (or something like Jason Tong’s Headfirst Alta) would be great but I really do wonder if it’s just too much of a niche market for them.

No idea how many JVM’s they make a year in 2023 but I don’t think it’s anywhere near the reissues or asian made stuff
 
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MirrorProfiles said:
I’m sure it would be popular (and it’s probably the amp most people want, myself included) but would it really sell in big enough numbers for them to make it worthwhile? It seems more like something Friedman can sell, because their market is based on selling fewer amps to people who are willing to pay more for something they perceive as premium.

Would need to be priced significantly less than what boutique builders offer….

and going back to my other point, DSL already coaxes a pretty dead on 800 and modded plexi (albeit without diodes). A JVM mark 2 that had all that stuff in (or something like Jason Tong’s Headfirst Alta) would be great but I really do wonder if it’s just too much of a niche market for them.

No idea how many JVM’s they make a year in 2023 but I don’t think it’s anywhere near the reissues or asian made stuff
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If given the choice I think the average player would rather have a modded Marshall with the Marshall faceplate than a modded Marshall with someone else’s name on it. (Friedman etc.)

I’ve owned a DSL, it’s an excellent amp. Sure it can get some of those tones, but we could say that about hundreds of amps frankly, but it still doesn’t make people any less desirous of actually owning an 800 or a Plexi. That’s sort of the point.

The DSL probably took a significant amount of R&D to develop that amp and it sells for about $2,300 less than a 100w equivalent 800, which is a 40yo circuit. That highlights that they can develop modern featured amps on amps with significantly less profit margins, so why not focus on doing that with the amps that everyone actually wants?

I totally get your perspective and don’t entirely disagree, I just think they could be doing a hell of a lot more than coasting on entirely overpriced “legacy” amps.
 
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