Line 6 mystery product speculation

[Sascha Franck]

because they felt touchscreens are inherently less reliable than non-touchscreens. Except they're not. At all. In the slightest. What the hell?

In a way they are. In case a touchscreen will have some crackles, chances are the touch portion won't work at all anymore. In case it's just a screen to look at, chances are you could still identify most things and operate the unit via knobs and buttons.

 

[laxu]

In a way they are. In case a touchscreen will have some crackles, chances are the touch portion won't work at all anymore. In case it's just a screen to look at, chances are you could still identify most things and operate the unit via knobs and buttons.

All the phones out there with broken displays would disagree. Usually the touch layer keeps working just fine.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Why not? Have a spring loaded stylus in the unit and pop it out when needed. Better than using some sweaty fat fingers in the middle of a show.

The contenders:

1) Hold note/chord, put pick away, grab pen, edit, put pen away, grab pick, continue playing.

vs.

2) Hold note/chord, edit, continue playing.

Yeah, certainly looks like (1) will be the clear winner here.

 

[Sascha Franck]

All the phones out there with broken displays would disagree. Usually the touch layer keeps working just fine.

Can't second that. In just one year, we (in our family) had 2 phones with the screen still at least sort of showing all sufficient information while all things touch would be almost completely broken.

 

[Sascha Franck]

And fwiw, I'm all in the pro-touchscreen camp. Just that their location (fixed on a floor unit) most often is making absolutely no sense. It's great on a rack unit, but otherwise make it detachable or simply offer mobile editors.

 

[the-trooper]

Ahh another thread has become about UI

Reaper?

 

[nightlight]

I’m guessing this is a range of products under the Line 6 Nexus banner. You got to admit, the Helix is now over a decade old.

You’ll have a new modeller series (rack, floor, smaller floor, tiny floor unit), then you’ll have powered "FRFR" cabinets with some kind of DSP involved like the Kemper Kabinets.

I’m personally excited, I’d love to hear if they have improved the models from the Helix. Greater competition benefits everyone.

And yes, touchscreens are unavoidable in this day and age. It’s a more sophisticated and intuitive way of navigating through multiple parameters than turning knobs. If they can get it like the Neural DSP Quad Cortex, that’s good enough for me.

 

[bigmenace]

In a way they are. In case a touchscreen will have some crackles, chances are the touch portion won't work at all anymore. In case it's just a screen to look at, chances are you could still identify most things and operate the unit via knobs and buttons.

Just make it work both way to please everyone.
That's one of the things I like about Headrush - you can edit via touchscreen or navigate with just one knob. Okay, maybe you can't remove blocks with the knob, don't remember if there was an option.

 

[mbenigni]

But you can’t possibly say that the same sized dsp when the helix came out wouldn’t be way more powerful for way less money right?

I wouldn't want to stumble into that argument without doing some homework, but... Moore's Law is very specifically quantified. It states that CPU power (actually, transistor count) will double every two years with a minimal increase in cost. That stopped being true a few years ago. Chips are still getting smaller, cooler, faster, and cheaper - just not at the rate Moore observed/ predicted.

That, and you've got all kinds of disruptions in supply chains and international partnerships right now. But you've also got advancements that might tip the scales in the opposite direction in the near future: AI, etc.

If you're specifically curious about the next generation of DSP chips, there are people much better equipped to answer that question here, e.g. @Digital Igloo.

 

[mbenigni]

Yeah a Helix or FM9 or QC in the QC format with HX Edit or FM9-Edit or Cortex Control (respectively) on the device with some tweaks would be killer.

FIFY.

 

[mbenigni]

Well Apple is supposedly adding a camera shutter button to the new iPhone, so there’s something to be said about having the right mix of touch and tactile controls.

Point is QC and TMP are already there: touchscreen plus more encoders than their competition. Nobody is suggesting that touchscreens are a good replacement for knobs on musical equipment.

 

[mbenigni]

And using them with traces of sweat on your fingers sucks.

Same endpoint as with the "poopswitchgate" debate: wash your hands.

 

[ragingplatypi]

Nobody is suggesting that touchscreens are a good replacement for knobs on musical equipment.

Or sliders

(Sorry- it can’t be a UI rabbit hole with out a knobs vs sliders brawl)

 

[Whizzinby]

Same endpoint as with the "poopswitchgate" debate: wash your hands.

Within a page:

1. Sweaty fingers
   • You know, for their run of hardcore shows on the surface of the sun
   • 99% of humanity rubs their hand on their pants/shirt in the rare instance that profuse sweat is affecting tapping a TS
   • Honestly I have no idea how I’m posting this from my phone with my current status
     
2. Wasted space during performance
   • Wait, if you’re not using the controls during a performance (a good thing, no?) then what’s the sweat finger paranoia about?
   • I haven’t touched a single knob on my JVM in 4 months, is that control panel wasted space? I mean, isn’t any control surface “wasted” while you are…. ugh… playing the guitar?
   • 
3. Yeah but can you make fast adjustments on the fly
   • Are you able to tap a block and turn a knob?
   • 

It’s completely fine to prefer a different UI approach, but questioning the usability and reliability of a touchscreen in 2024 is kind of weird.

 

[Sascha Franck]

but questioning the usability and reliability of a touchscreen in 2024 is kind of weird.

How so? Touchscreens are breaking all the time on phones. Yes, in 2024. There's a reason for umpteenth mobile phone repair shops in my direct neighbourhood (we're talking at least 5 within 500 meters or so - sure, they're doing other things as well, but screen repairs seem to be one of their main businesses).
Whatever, as said, I'm all for touchscreens. But let me place them where my hands are.

And fwiw, in general, we're not talking touchscreens but UI issues. And oh yes, it's scary that we have to do so all the time in 2024 - but it's defenitely not only because some stubborn dickheads like me are raising these points again and again. No, it's mainly because on many, many modelers (and other digital devices of course), a whole lot of UI things plain and simply suck big time. And that even includes those that are quite high on the "what a nice UI" ranking.
To this day, not one of them can even remotely hold a candle against a plain old analog setups in terms of quick access and what not. Not even at all. And very often not even when you factor in editor apps.

This is why these issues are raised all the time. It's got very little to do with touchscreens. You could have a damn near perfect UI experience without any touchscreen. It'd likely use some space and be rather costly, though.

 

[Whizzinby]

How so? Touchscreens are breaking all the time on phones. Yes, in 2024. There's a reason for umpteenth mobile phone repair shops in my direct neighbourhood (we're talking at least 5 within 500 meters or so - sure, they're doing other things as well, but screen repairs seem to be one of their main businesses).
Whatever, as said, I'm all for touchscreens. But let me place them where my hands are.

How many broken QC and TMP screens have you seen reported on forums?

A cell phone is much more ripe for damage due to drops because it is handled and moved constantly throughout the day. A modeler is placed once per gig.

And fwiw, in general, we're not talking touchscreens but UI issues.

I wasn’t replying to you.

To this day, not one of them can even remotely hold a candle against a plain old analog setups in terms of quick access and what not. Not even at all. And very often not even when you factor in editor apps.

In the post you quoted I said “It’s fine to prefer a different UI approach”.

This is why these issues are raised all the time. It's got very little to do with touchscreens. You could have a damn near perfect UI experience without any touchscreen. It'd likely use some space and be rather costly, though.

 

[Sascha Franck]

How many broken QC and TMP screens have you seen reported on forums?

None, but I never watched.

A cell phone is much more ripe for damage due to drops because it is handled and moved constantly throughout the day. A modeler is placed once per gig.

I totally agree, but still, a touchscreen on the floor isn't exactly where a touchscreen belongs to. And while the same could be said for knobs, with touchscreens things could be solved way more easily.

I wasn’t replying to you.

I know. But this is quite a general thing, though. IMO at least.

In the post you quoted I said “It’s fine to prefer a different UI approach”.

Again, my statement isn't about any specific approach but rather about general shortcomings. Of which there are a plenty in each and every modeler's UI section.
I could of course come up with dozens of examples.

 

[Aleksi]

Not this shit again

 

[Sascha Franck]

Not this shit again

Yes, this shit again! Like it or don't, UI issues are very crucial for many folks.

 

[metropolis_4]

Within a page:

1. Wasted space during performance
   • Wait, if you’re not using the controls during a performance (a good thing, no?) then what’s the sweat finger paranoia about?
   • I haven’t touched a single knob on my JVM in 4 months, is that control panel wasted space? I mean, isn’t any control surface “wasted” while you are…. ugh… playing the guitar?
   • 

I don’t know why you’re making fun of my comment when I said I don’t mind them, but I think they’re overhyped.

Yes exactly. The control surface is wasted space during a performance, the touch part doesn’t really matter at that point.

What DOES matter during a performance is to display information that is actually helpful/relevant to performing and that is what both the QC and TMP lack.

That big screen doesn’t display anything useful for performing on either device.

Use that space to show me what I actually need to see in the heat of battle