Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[EOengineer]

After the last couple of days working with Stadium, I think I might have to eat some crow about my criticism of the reverbs. I know these algorithms haven't changed, but something about how they sound has changed. I'm going to guess it's two things:

• Better default settings
  • The default setting for the Glitz reverb sounds straight up awesome. Better than my years of continual tweaking produced. This is the cloud reverb I've been looking for. I almost hate to say it, but it's better than what I am getting with Fractal.
  • Same with Dynamic Hall and Plate. I don't hear that lumpiness of the Motion that I was hearing in Helix. Different default settings? The Focus View "presets"? Something has changed here.
• Better hardware / aliasing / headroom...or whatever
  • Could be these things contribute to better fidelity in the reverb department.

All I know is I pretty much hated them before but I am straight up loving what I'm hearing now. That's not to say I don't wish for more and better reverbs, but this just isn't what I hear on recordings of my tones from the Helix. I still want the option for a different mix law like Fractal has for their reverbs and delays, and I still want better delays with more control over EQ. But for now I'm a very surprised and happy camper. The Agoura AC30 also surprised me. It's not only better than I expected it would be, I'd venture to say it's better than the Fractal models I'm using too.

Now, if I could just get a "Stadium Stomp" for my acoustic/lap/pedal steel stuff, I'd likely ditch Fractal altogether.

I’ve also noticed what I think are more sensible defaults for a number of the effects?

I did find myself kind of floored by how good the model of the MXR-117 flanger sounded. That’s a near and dear vintage effect I own and there’s absolutely more mojo happening with that effect on Stadium. I’m pretty sure it’s something dynamic range related. The phase 90 still feels lame to me but it’s clear I’m going to need to go take another pass through the effects.

 

[mikah912]

After the last couple of days working with Stadium, I think I might have to eat some crow about my criticism of the reverbs. I know these algorithms haven't changed, but something about how they sound has changed. I'm going to guess it's two things:

• Better default settings
  • The default setting for the Glitz reverb sounds straight up awesome. Better than my years of continual tweaking produced. This is the cloud reverb I've been looking for. I almost hate to say it, but it's better than what I am getting with Fractal.
  • Same with Dynamic Hall and Plate. I don't hear that lumpiness of the Motion that I was hearing in Helix. Different default settings? The Focus View "presets"? Something has changed here.
• Better hardware / aliasing / headroom...or whatever
  • Could be these things contribute to better fidelity in the reverb department.

All I know is I pretty much hated them before but I am straight up loving what I'm hearing now. That's not to say I don't wish for more and better reverbs, but this just isn't what I hear on recordings of my tones from the Helix. I still want the option for a different mix law like Fractal has for their reverbs and delays, and I still want better delays with more control over EQ. But for now I'm a very surprised and happy camper. The Agoura AC30 also surprised me. It's not only better than I expected it would be, I'd venture to say it's better than the Fractal models I'm using too.

Now, if I could just get a "Stadium Stomp" for my acoustic/lap/pedal steel stuff, I'd likely ditch Fractal altogether.

I've been saying the exact same thing, and I was actually a fan of the HX versions!

I don't know what magic the Stadium hardware holds, but the HX algorithms - amp, cabs and FX - sound better. I have the OG Helix stuff right here, and it's not just honeymoon talk or confirmation bias. Something is different.

 

[Orvillain]

After the last couple of days working with Stadium, I think I might have to eat some crow about my criticism of the reverbs. I know these algorithms haven't changed, but something about how they sound has changed. I'm going to guess it's two things:

• Better default settings
  • The default setting for the Glitz reverb sounds straight up awesome. Better than my years of continual tweaking produced. This is the cloud reverb I've been looking for. I almost hate to say it, but it's better than what I am getting with Fractal.
  • Same with Dynamic Hall and Plate. I don't hear that lumpiness of the Motion that I was hearing in Helix. Different default settings? The Focus View "presets"? Something has changed here.
• Better hardware / aliasing / headroom...or whatever
  • Could be these things contribute to better fidelity in the reverb department.

All I know is I pretty much hated them before but I am straight up loving what I'm hearing now. That's not to say I don't wish for more and better reverbs, but this just isn't what I hear on recordings of my tones from the Helix. I still want the option for a different mix law like Fractal has for their reverbs and delays, and I still want better delays with more control over EQ. But for now I'm a very surprised and happy camper. The Agoura AC30 also surprised me. It's not only better than I expected it would be, I'd venture to say it's better than the Fractal models I'm using too.

Now, if I could just get a "Stadium Stomp" for my acoustic/lap/pedal steel stuff, I'd likely ditch Fractal altogether.

I still have an issue with them. They're usable, sure. In some circumstances. But I can't get the tones I want from them.

 

[Deadpan]

Happy to report the Stadium had a solid connection to the PC app today. Moved it slightly on the desk.

 

[GTR37]

Happy to report the Stadium had a solid connection to the PC app today. Moved it slightly on the desk.

How are you liking it so far
For the hi gain stuff , SLO /XTC that you are familiar with

 

[wharf rat]

Happy to report the Stadium had a solid connection to the PC app today. Moved it slightly on the desk.

Do you keep your stadium on your actual desk?

I tried that and it took up basically the entire thing.

 

[Deadpan]

How are you liking it so far
For the hi gain stuff , SLO /XTC that you are familiar with

I think they did a great job all around. The Agora amps have the defining characteristics the real amps have. Line 6 did a nice job pairing the amps to cabs that seemingly sound better to me than I remember in Helix.

 

[banned]

I'm still not fully feeling the Agora amps.

This is a high level observation...but I find that I often like the tonality of the HX amps more, but the feel of the Agora amps better. There are many Agora amps that I do think are very nice -

• Tweed Bassman - Beautiful!
• Fender Dripbass
• The SuperBass
• Hiwatt
• Vox (although, I like the HX one as well - different tonality)
• Fender DR
• Fender Twin
• Bogner Blue (haven't tried the Red Channel)
• SLO

But I find that I like the Marshalls better on the Helix

• Plexi - Norm, Bright and Jumped
• TremBrit - Norm, Bright and Jumped
• JCM800 - 2203
• Vox AC30 - I like the tonality of this amp better, but to get the right feel, you have to play with sag and bias X
• DR - I kinda like the tonality of this better as well, but again, have to dial up the sag

The Helix Marshalls have an edge to them that the Agora doesn't have. In general, there seems to be some high end missing on the Agora amps - I notice this mainly when I play through guitar cabs. This is with the correct SIC after the amp (with the cab block disabled).

The Agora amps seem more refined...but maybe a little too polite at times. It is only when I dial to extreme settings (eg: presence = 10, treble = 10) that I can obtain the 'rawness' that I like. Although with the Agora Plexi, even that doesn't seem to work.

Regarding the reverb - I had some concerns - but once I was able to play with some settings (which I posted in the Stadium tips and tricks thread), it sounds great. No worries there. Genuinely good stuff - Dynamic Plate, Dynamic Hall, Dynamic Ambience and 63' Spring Reverb.

I really like the many delays. Crisscross being my favorite. It's perfection. The drives are also very, very nice. I'm finding that some of the bass amp drives work wonders on guitar.

The UI and workflow are top notch. If another company is trying to do something today - I'd say just implement what L6 has done here. There's no point in coming up with something different - these guys have done a great job and there only so many ways that you can get a UI to work. Some level of standardization is sure to follow for the rest of the industry.

For a gigging musician, on the whole, this unit is perfect - size, build quality (even the 'on/off' button has a nice heft and feel to it), UI,UX, features, tones....if only some of the amps had a bit more of an edge to them...mainly by virtue of the high-end being more present.

 

[Elric]

LOL, I build and repair tube amps, I KNOW exactly how they work and what impacts them. There is way more going on than the tone stack, but capture tech already can capture ALL OF IT! Your skepticism is rooted in not understanding. Trust me, dynamic captures are going to be a thing pretty soon and they will evolve rapidly. It's already being worked on.

You can argue from authority it you want, I suppose. Logical fallacy. I am an EE and have done plenty of work professionally in circuit modeling and simulation. But am not using that as if it was some kind of argument or point. So trying to claim you are correct because you have some special knowledge is non-sense.

Interpolation and modeling the TS would be USEFUL and is a potentially valuable method to represent a model but it is NOT going to be fully ACCURATE as a simulation of a particular amplifier. As I noted you are likely better off with a brute force approach once you get the compute and storage necessary just to measure it all. There is a difference. But believe whatever you want. I’m sure folks will implement interpolation as you predict and you can claim that is somehow confirmation of your bias but that won’t make it a wholly accurate model of the complete amplifier in question.

 

[GTR37]

I'm still not fully feeling the Agora amps.

This is a high level observation...but I find that I often like the tonality of the HX amps more, but the feel of the Agora amps better. There are many Agora amps that I do think are very nice -

• Tweed Bassman - Beautiful!
• Fender Dripbass
• The SuperBass
• Hiwatt
• Vox (although, I like the HX one as well - different tonality)
• Fender DR
• Fender Twin
• Bogner Blue (haven't tried the Red Channel)
• SLO

But I find that I like the Marshalls better on the Helix

• Plexi - Norm, Bright and Jumped
• TremBrit - Norm, Bright and Jumped
• JCM800 - 2203
• Vox AC30 - I like the tonality of this amp better, but to get the right feel, you have to play with sag and bias X
• DR - I kinda like the tonality of this better as well, but again, have to dial up the sag

The Helix Marshalls have an edge to them that the Agora doesn't have. In general, there seems to be some high end missing on the Agora amps - I notice this mainly when I play through guitar cabs. This is with the correct SIC after the amp (with the cab block disabled).

The Agora amps seem more refined...but maybe a little too polite at times. It is only when I dial to extreme settings (eg: presence = 10, treble = 10) that I can obtain the 'rawness' that I like. Although with the Agora Plexi, even that doesn't seem to work.

Regarding the reverb - I had some concerns - but once I was able to play with some settings (which I posted in the Stadium tips and tricks thread), it sounds great. No worries there. Genuinely good stuff - Dynamic Plate, Dynamic Hall, Dynamic Ambience and 63' Spring Reverb.

I really like the many delays. Crisscross being my favorite. It's perfection. The drives are also very, very nice. I'm finding that some of the bass amp drives work wonders on guitar.

The UI and workflow are top notch. If another company is trying to do something today - I'd say just implement what L6 has done here. There's no point in coming up with something different - these guys have done a great job and there only so many ways that you can get a UI to work. Some level of standardization is sure to follow for the rest of the industry.

For a gigging musician, on the whole, this unit is perfect - size, build quality (even the 'on/off' button has a nice heft and feel to it), UI,UX, features, tones....if only some of the amps had a bit more of an edge to them...mainly by virtue of the high-end being more present.

Well if it only the Marshalls you don’t love , maybe there will be something coming up in the new Agoura in December like a Freidman BE DLX or something that you will prefer better
It sounds like it’s a winner so far if that’s really your only concern this early in

 

[banned]

NDSP's Tina is an attempt at dynamic capture. Their models are captures.

The problem is the sheer volume of data points required to capture an amp in its entirety. Consider typical G, T, M, B, P, Master volume setup. If we divide that into 10 discrete settings for each knob - with a simplistic approach, the number of data points (single pass) required would be 10^6 (1M data points), right?

You don't need to interpolate - you can tune a Neural Network to that. But ideally, you'd need even more data to get it right. You could do something like run a DOE with a Latin Hypercube or something like that....but it's still a lot of data points to capture all the non-linearities.

This may be why Tina is sidelined and why it's taking them so long to release amps. Which is probably why they're just putting out captures because it's simpler. Don't know why they didn't think about this?

Fractal and L6 do it differently.

 

[Chocol8]

You can argue from authority it you want, I suppose. Logical fallacy. I am an EE and have done plenty of work professionally in circuit modeling and simulation. But am not using that as if it was some kind of argument or point. So trying to claim you are correct because you have some special knowledge is non-sense.

Interpolation and modeling the TS would be USEFUL and is a potentially valuable method to represent a model but it is NOT going to be fully ACCURATE as a simulation of a particular amplifier. As I noted you are likely better off with a brute force approach once you get the compute and storage necessary just to measure it all. There is a difference. But believe whatever you want. I’m sure folks will implement interpolation as you predict and you can claim that is somehow confirmation of your bias but that won’t make it a wholly accurate model of the complete amplifier in question.

OK, so when this hits the market in less than 24 months and actually works extremely well, you will just argue "it not really accurate because..." even if it actually is more accurate than any model. Yeah, got it. Nothing will ever convince you that you are wrong, even a working example, so I am out.

 

[DanRad]

Did we ever figure out what's going on with the login issue? I'm getting the "Cannot login to the selected server" message. Doesn't appear to affect functionality, but it would be nice to know what's happening.

 

[GTR37]

Did we ever figure out what's going on with the login issue? I'm getting the "Cannot login to the selected server" message. Doesn't appear to affect functionality, but it would be nice to know what's happening.

Frank said he is compiling a list of bugs , and would give update my guess is when they are back in the office next week
Maybe there will be a hot fix or maybe it will roll into 1.2 that is scheduled for December

 

[ccc118]

Did we ever figure out what's going on with the login issue? I'm getting the "Cannot login to the selected server" message. Doesn't appear to affect functionality, but it would be nice to know what's happening.

Is this on the site it brings you to after scanning the QR code? I had an error there, but there is an option to log in directly on the device instead and that worked for me. Did you try that?

 

[DanRad]

Is this on the site it brings you to after scanning the QR code? I had an error there, but there is an option to log in directly on the device instead and that worked for me. Did you try that?

No. This is after the update to 1.1 Apparently started happening a couple days ago. When you boot up, it says your login failed. You can dismiss the dialogue and everything works fine. I was also able to login to Helix Stadium Edit with no problem, but the unit itself still gives the "cannot login to selected server" message.

As far as I can tell, zero functionality hit, but it seems like it could interfere with the update to 1.2 if they don't figure it out (which I am 180 percent certain they will).

 

[DanRad]

Frank said he is compiling a list of bugs , and would give update my guess is when they are back in the office next week
Maybe there will be a hot fix or maybe it will roll into 1.2 that is scheduled for December

My question is: How can the unit update to 1.2 if it can't login? Though it sounds like it's maybe a problem on the cloud end of things, since it happened suddenly.

Is it happening to everyone, though? Anyone rebooted recently and NOT gotten that error message?

 

[GLiDE-BPM]

I'm Agoura>Axe III (50/50 depending on the models>HX

 

[Lysander]

My question is: How can the unit update to 1.2 if it can't login? Though it sounds like it's maybe a problem on the cloud end of things, since it happened suddenly.

You can always update via USB.

 

[Mongillo19]

I'm Agoura>Axe III (50/50 depending on the models>HX

As with any units, I like some better than others. Regardless, Agoura is a great step forward. Tbh I never jived with the HX models and it took a decent amount of work for me to like them. Agoura is pretty effortless.....and the stadium is just plain fun to use!