Line 6 Helix Stadium Pre-Launch Discussion

[paisleywookiee]

Fractal is ahead in effect quality and diversity from what I have seen

Not in diversity, no.

 

[timbuck3]

Just my 2c

Purely from a sound and feel perspective in the last 2 years using my FM3, whatever Fractal has released has sounded and felt , i.m.h.o, very iterative in very minor jumps - putting aside all the sycophant comments on the FAS forum.

I would suggest an FM3 FW from 2 years ago will sound a little bit different to today but I would go so far as to say, in a blind test, no-one would reliably pick the difference.

I have no-idea what Fractal is planning, but a Company of their small size simply cannot get even remotely close to the feature set of Stadium for anything like that price .... and remember Agora isn't going to stand still either.

I also dont think that the "brains" at Fractal have more knowledge than the "brains" at L6 ..... this is the whole mythology that Fractal has and does rely on and subtly and sometimes not so subtly traded on.

With respect - that boat sailed a couple of years ago.

Hell, I spent about 2 weeks messing with an Ampero Stomp II 8 months ago and it can sound every bit as good as a Helix or FM3 - you could play "stadiums" [pardon the pun] with that unit and it will give you stunning tones.

The rusted on Fractal people will never move and have already been pre-emptivley shit-bagging Stadium - but they are a very vocal and loyal minority.

My guess is Agora / Stadium is definitely going to hurt Fractal in terms of their sales - plus they are also facing significant economic issues not of their making.

All just speccualtion of course.

But if fractal is so small how is it they exceed in amount of ampmodrls and effects,?

 

[timbuck3]

Without question the UI is Fractals biggest weakness and if they continue to ignore it I believe it will hurt them in the long run. I don't see them ever competing with Line 6 for UI and I don't think they need to. But they do need something more competitive again. Nevertheless, as I said before I can't stop feeling deja vu from with the last Helix release. Seems both companies are in similar places to each other, just ten years further down the road.

What’s odd is even hr will less r&d in making models and effects has the smarts to have a decent gui

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

Fractal is ahead in effect quality and diversity from what I have seen

Seen or played and heard?

SOME Fractal effects are of “better” quality than the competition and some aren’t. I feel like mod, delay and reverb on fractal are more to my liking than Helix but it’s more like pedals vs rack effects. I do think the Helix drives are better. Diversity? Clearly Helix wins that one.

 

[Dez]

What’s odd is even hr will less r&d in making models and effects has the smarts to have a decent gui

Sound > GUI, both being equal enough that it’s splitting hairs, GUI wins in my opinion. Idk if the Fractal line GUI is so terrible other than the VP4 I have but if it isn’t then I don’t see why people hate it so much. VP4 took me like 15 minutes to figure out

 

[paisleywookiee]

Sound > GUI, both being equal enough that it’s splitting hairs, GUI wins in my opinion. Idk if the Fractal line GUI is so terrible other than the VP4 I have but if it isn’t then I don’t see why people hate it so much. VP4 took me like 15 minutes to figure out

It’s not great, but I don’t hate it.

 

[GTR37]

Eh, I’d also argue that there’s an enormous amount of needless overlap on the Fractal. Not Cliff’s fault, I’m sure it’s absolutely accurate. It’s just that the amps themselves aren’t so insanely different that you need so many permutations.

I could easily get things done on either the Helix or Fractal. And neither of them has a goddamn Badlander.

Maybe the Mesa Badlander is the amp Di said was coming in and early firmware that never been in any L6 product to date … if the other line6 guys hang out here enough I am sure they have seen the praise

 

[GTR37]

Fractal is ahead in effect quality and diversity from what I have seen

 

[Gary_W]

After this week’s YouTube showing how many fx can be used at once, DI gave the caveat that Agoura amps take quite a bit more DSP which is understandable. So whilst multiple amps is possible it will of course hit a wall at some point - I’m not clear what that point is yet so ‘is two Agoura at once possible?’. Not an issue for me really as I’m coming from Kemper’s ‘one at a time in series’ and haven’t felt like I’m missing out but I’m still interested in what’s possible.

I know I’m asking about a future here as the Clone software won’t arrive until 2026 so it may be too early to say….. I wonder how much DSP it takes to run a clone vs running an Agoura amp? Bigger or smaller? Does the Stadium have the ability to (for example) run a cloned dirt pedal into an Agoura amp? I am guessing ‘yes’ as otherwise there would be zero point in being able to clone pedals / amps / cabs separately which I think they’ve already said is possible.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I’m not clear what that point is yet so ‘is two Agoura at once possible?’

While I have zero insight into the CPU demands of the Agoura amps, I'd say it should be possible. Being able to run - at least - 2 amps at once, with the big Helixes it's even been 4, has always been one of the strong points of the HX series (and even the Stomp can run 2), so I couldn't imagine this to be any different. Well, maybe 4 at once wouldn't be possible. Or you might have to sacrifice FX amounts, whatever - but given that the new series should be more powerful, I'd assume that you'd possibly be able to load all existing Helix patches using 2 amps max. and replace the used amps with Agoura models.
Having to give that up would certainly make some existing users worry whether things are worth it. "I'm so used to my dual amp patches and now I need to give that up?"

 

[molul]

Having to give that up would certainly make some existing users worry whether things are worth it. "I'm so used to my dual amp patches and now I need to give that up?"

Correct. I hope I'm able to have a Brit 2203, Revv Gen Red and US Super Nrm in the same preset, with some effects.

 

[Orvillain]

I am totally a gearslut, so take this with a pinch of salt.

But there is a reason I have 3 reverbs and two additional delays on my board, even though I have the VP4.

Try making the Fractal reverbs sound as horrible and characterful as the Boss RV-5. You can get close. But you can't nail it. Fractal effects are quite often too polite.

 

[laxu]

I am totally a gearslut, so take this with a pinch of salt.

But there is a reason I have 3 reverbs and two additional delays on my board, even though I have the VP4.

Try making the Fractal reverbs sound as horrible and characterful as the Boss RV-5. You can get close. But you can't nail it. Fractal effects are quite often too polite.

For me the bigger issue is getting there. Fractal offers the tools, but replicating my Volante is not quite happening because to adjust e.g the volume of a playback head requires a lot of scrolling and turning a 0-100% knob compared to "hold one button for 1 sec" on the Volante.

It doesn't help that you have those delay and reverb times that go from 10ms to 10 seconds. I've suggested some scale limiter in the past but this is Fractal, they don't do usability improvements.

I do hope Line6 improves their delay/reverbs because those have never quite inspired me in the way Fractal does. Fractal's out of the box settings for many of their effects are really good.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I do hope Line6 improves their delay/reverbs because those have never quite inspired me in the way Fractal does.

I think that, for starters, some additional controls would help as well. There's still quite some delays that don't even have any tone control. Why not? Could be switchable not to eat up CPU ressources (which should be almost neglible anyway). I use those for pretty much any delay and they help a great deal. Same goes for modulation. I wish that was available on any delay, Could again be switchable.
And fwiw, talking about delays, I don't know why some, such as the Dual Delay, aren't available in mono. I run everything strictly mono live and hence want all FX to be mono as well. I know that they're collapsed to mono when only using the left output, but that doesn't help when using headphones. Alternatively, allow me to collapse any output to mono in the mixer (pre-DAW return of course).

 

[Orvillain]

Options:

Basically.... on a Pedaltrain XD-24, that back row is actually very handy. All you need to do to make it a bit more usable in practice, is get one of the newer Rockboard MOD boxes, that can fit between the bars of a Pedaltrain (V1 versions cannot!) and you're good to go. They've got quite a few options:

 

[Chocol8]

I wonder how much DSP it takes to run a clone vs running an Agoura amp? Bigger or smaller?

Unless Agora is incredibly efficient AND they totally screw up the efficiency of Proxy, running a Proxy profile should use significantly less processing.

 

[mbenigni]

You might once we add the ability to create your own five custom zones to morph between.

I want this yesterday.

 

[Fireproof]

After this week’s YouTube showing how many fx can be used at once, DI gave the caveat that Agoura amps take quite a bit more DSP which is understandable. So whilst multiple amps is possible it will of course hit a wall at some point - I’m not clear what that point is yet so ‘is two Agoura at once possible?’. Not an issue for me really as I’m coming from Kemper’s ‘one at a time in series’ and haven’t felt like I’m missing out but I’m still interested in what’s possible.

I know I’m asking about a future here as the Clone software won’t arrive until 2026 so it may be too early to say….. I wonder how much DSP it takes to run a clone vs running an Agoura amp? Bigger or smaller? Does the Stadium have the ability to (for example) run a cloned dirt pedal into an Agoura amp? I am guessing ‘yes’ as otherwise there would be zero point in being able to clone pedals / amps / cabs separately which I think they’ve already said is possible.

I would also think that a Proxy Amp would take a lot less DSP than a regular amp.

So what if you could clone your fav Agoura Amps at particular settings and then just use the Proxy version(s) in your chain to save DSP and run more than the actual model?

 

[Sascha Franck]

All you need to do to make it a bit more usable in practice, is get one of the newer Rockboard MOD boxes,

As a kinda warning: Been using one of these and a DIY one before. Stopped doing so. Unless you really hide the outlets way beneath the board, chances are some of your drunken co-musicians or - in case of huge success stories - some even more drunken stage divers will stumble over the cables sticking out. Take a deep breath and guess how I know...
I went back to cables and cabled sockets (or female-female adapters), now even a super drunken elephant could do his little Fred Astaire thing. Doesn't look shiny but works great.
Allthough, I think @HotRats came up with a pretty decent DIY solution.

 

[KingsXJJ]

May have missed this but will these run convoluted reverbs?