Kemper Profiler MK 2

[Jarick]

Why?

Most of the amp models are the same. Showcase only just came out, Proxy still hasn't come out. Line 6 announced it back in January. I don't understand why so many people are so excited to pay a premium for something that isn't complete yet & offers, imo, marginal improvement over the unit they already have?

Is it the touch screen? I don't understand why that's such a big draw on a floor unit.

I wonder that a bit myself. Seems more like people getting excited about something new rather than something that's a huge step forward today. I'm sure the Stadium over time will be amazing though. For me it's just steep financially. I'm in wait and see mode.

 

[Lysander]

Why?

Can't speak for anyone else, but i'm in basically for an enhanced Helix experience on a compact form factor (regular Helix Stadium). That, alone, makes it a much more compelling buy today than the likes of the QC and TMP at ~$1800 - it simply offers way more.

 

[Sascha Franck]

but i'm in basically for an enhanced Helix experience on a compact form factor (regular Helix Stadium)

That'd be the main buying incentive for me right now as well. Would never ever have to touch the editor, which I just love. Also, as far as gigging goes (which would be its main purpose), while sufficiently large to suit enough controls (and footswitches with proper space between them) and the touchscreen, it'd still be small enough to not require a case on its own in most cases, which I always hated with the old Floor - it's just been too big to fit into anything but a case (or a very large bag) and too heavy as well (let the bag fall down and it might break because of that weight).

 

[Gary_W]

Why?

Most of the amp models are the same. Showcase only just came out, Proxy still hasn't come out. Line 6 announced it back in January. I don't understand why so many people are so excited to pay a premium for something that isn't complete yet & offers, imo, marginal improvement over the unit they already have?

Is it the touch screen? I don't understand why that's such a big draw on a floor unit.

Because I owned a Kemper, I was used to having a product that grew over the years (they added really nice delays, reverbs etc over the course of time I owned it).

When they brought out the mk2, I was a natural to buy it (happy customer who hadn’t explored other models over the years). I did not like the concept of buying something that seems to be (hardware wise) 90% the same box I bought before. As well as the psychological concept of paying again for what seems to be the same as I already own, I did not belief that I would get 10+ years of growth out of it.

That’s how I ended up with stadium. It ticked the following boxes:
1. Company has long heritage with an existing product that it has updated.
2. Product has clearly defined hardware advantages vs the previous model
3. Company says it will update the Stadium to improve it over time. I believe them because of points 1 and 2.
4. Because I was used to profiles, the concept of dialing in presets from scratch seemed intimidating vs selecting a profile. The touchscreen focus mode is such a massive benefit if you’re not familiar with a particular amp - it really is brilliant
5. I researched helix native prior to buying stadium via a free trial. I discovered a bunch of cool sounds in there which I didn’t see coming as I believed that last generation tones wouldn’t fit the bill. I was wrong. Buying stadium would get me all those at even better quality (the converters on stadium are better than helix and the interface I used for native)
6. I took a punt that Agoura would be better still - there’s some stunning stuff in there.
7. The first update came out already - another is planned late Jan. As well as ‘more amps and bug fixes’, the first version of showcase is now on there and I’m having fun with it. It is very useful IMO - I can import 8 stems per song (I’m using Moises to make backing tracks but apparently stem separation within the stadium ecosystem is coming). I am still getting used to what I can do with it and haven’t scratched the surface. As well as changing snapshots at certain parts of the song without you having to stamp on a foot switch, it will also allow triggering the looper so you can potentially just play normally for the first verse and it will record you. For the second verse, it’ll play that back and change snapshots so you can play another part over the top.
8. Because capture tech is ‘out there in the wild already’ that outdoes the current Kemper profiling, there’s no way Proxy will be inferior to what I’ve had with my mk1 Kemper. Because I’m having a great experience with the modelling within Stadium I’m not anywhere near as bothered by this feature as I thought I would be but nice to know it’s coming and, even if it ends up not being ‘best in class’ it will for sure outdo a unit that kept me happy for 13 years.
9. Programming this thing is really, really easy. Capacitive footswitches plus knobs plus touchscreen = much, much easier to get what I want than I was used to.
10. I’m dealing with a company who are active on forums - it’s a rare week where you don’t see these guys responding and they will actually own up to bugs / debate you / say ‘that’s coming’ or ‘we can’t talk about that now’. This is such a breath of fresh air for me compared with getting a week ban from a forum for drifting off topic.

That’s it for now but there’s more. This things is already inspiring and it will grow. I’m not in a position to directly compare it to the real valve amps it’s modelling so I suppose I’m easier to please than some but it’s far more than a bunch of pretty lights.

 

[dws2384]

Despite all the other brands have make a huge step in the last few months, the only brands that let move all the knobs of an amp in a realistic way (dynamic profiles) are:
-kemper with liquid profiling
-dibiquadro (perfect recreation of each know but few amps)
-uad paradise (same as dibiquadro but not good in high gain)
-maybe helix stadium (in the videos it seem realistic but I don't know if it has really realistic knobs).

So for me Kemper is still the king just for the liquid profiling, I don't know why there people that doesn't see it like something revolutionary.
Waiting for liquid profiling 2.0.

I mean if you want to get technical Neural is doing a higher level of ‘liquid profiling’ as their recent models are made from thousands of captures. Seems like a better way to do it than sticking a modelled EQ on top of 1 profile ala Kemper.

 

[Gary_W]

I mean if you want to get technical Neural is doing a higher level of ‘liquid profiling’ as their recent models are made from thousands of captures. Seems like a better way to do it than sticking a modelled EQ on top of 1 profile ala Kemper.

That’s the thing….. I think there’s around 20 tone stack models with Kemper (sorry, I haven’t explored that for a while and now have moved on). For sure you’ll have a perfect match with some amps using one of this limited number but….. there are far more different tone stack models out there than Kemper have modelled so far.

 

[synthpenguin]

Why?

Most of the amp models are the same. Showcase only just came out, Proxy still hasn't come out. Line 6 announced it back in January. I don't understand why so many people are so excited to pay a premium for something that isn't complete yet & offers, imo, marginal improvement over the unit they already have?

Is it the touch screen? I don't understand why that's such a big draw on a floor unit.

Stadium launched with 16 new guitar amps, and 6 new bass amps. If you break it into channels like previous Helix did, and like Fractal does, then it's 30 guitar amp models and 15 bass amp models. One of those bass amp models (Dripman) is also an excellent guitar amp, so you can add one more amp / 3 more channel models to the guitar amp list. The 1.2 update (<1 month after launch) added 3 more guitar amps (7 channels), and yes also Showcase (because while it only just came out a week ago, it's not like there was a long wait after release).

The Tone Master Pro, for example, launched with 19 unique guitar amps, plus 3 studio preamps, for 27 amp channel models. At launch, it had no bass amps outside of the '59 Bassman (which, yeah, is basically a guitar amp in practice).

Both of these are short of the 28 unique guitar amps / 38 guitar amp channels at launch of the Helix, but it was a different era.

And none of these modeling platforms are complete until they stop updating them, because they all keep adding models for free until then. I personally think that's a good thing!

If someone wants to wait for Showcase to be further developed, or for Proxy (which was never supposed to be at launch), or for more amps, or for new effects, that's totally fine and understandable. I'm a big proponent of buying things for what they have now, and not for promised features. But it's not like this is Helix 1.5 just because they also include the old amps. Not to mention the increased processing power.

All that said, the only way I can relate to this angle is with the effects thing. I do think Stadium should have launched with some new FX: ones specifically designed to utilize the increased resources, whether that be new fancy reverbs and delays, or some cool pitch or synth thing. Even one or three would have been cool.

 

[Schelotto]

I mean if you want to get technical Neural is doing a higher level of ‘liquid profiling’ as their recent models are made from thousands of captures. Seems like a better way to do it than sticking a modelled EQ on top of 1 profile ala Kemper.

Yes, but only neural dsp can do that 'liquid profiles' with their new robot for architype, so you have few amps.
With kemper anybody can do a liquid profile free or for selling, so there are hundreds of different amps.

 

[DrewJD82]

The last thing I need is another modeler, already having an AxeFX III and FM9, but the Showcase features of the Stadium have me hugely interested. I just started a duo thing with a singer where we’re going to be playing to some drum/bass backing tracks and instead of keeping it limited to acoustic stuff, we’re just going to do whatever we want with electric/acoustic stuff. Being able to keep all that contained in the Stadium will be huge. Being able to mix the backing tracks for the room and automate vocal effects or even some small light pars is compelling me to take advantage of the technology, I think it can add a whole level of professionalism/production one wouldn’t expect from a duo.

 

[Orvillain]

Research and development takes time.

It does. Which is usually why you do it all before you announce a product.

 

[SillyOctpuss]

It does. Which is usually why you do it all before you announce a product.

But that's not the Kemper DSP way.

 

[Chocol8]

That’s the thing….. I think there’s around 20 tone stack models with Kemper (sorry, I haven’t explored that for a while and now have moved on). For sure you’ll have a perfect match with some amps using one of this limited number but….. there are far more different tone stack models out there than Kemper have modelled so far.

They also interact with the rest of the circuits in different ways. Liquid Profiling is mostly marketing, not anything truly revolutionary in it's accuracy.

 

[Chocol8]

Yes, but only neural dsp can do that 'liquid profiles' with their new robot for architype, so you have few amps.
With kemper anybody can do a liquid profile free or for selling, so there are hundreds of different amps.

NDSP is doing far better than the Lipstick on a Pig. Just wait a year or two and I bet you will see similar multiple capture approaches from NAM and possibly others. Once the tech is developed, it will allow dynamic digital modeling faster, cheaper, and more accurately than current modeler approaches, so I expect it will be a big player in the near future.

 

[dean701]

Why?

Most of the amp models are the same. Showcase only just came out, Proxy still hasn't come out. Line 6 announced it back in January. I don't understand why so many people are so excited to pay a premium for something that isn't complete yet & offers, imo, marginal improvement over the unit they already have?

Is it the touch screen? I don't understand why that's such a big draw on a floor unit.

I'm actually of the same mindset. For those that don't have a modeler the Stadium is interesting but until all features are populated and the kinks are worked out I'm on the sidelines. I think it's silly watching people dump their OGs at 60% cost just to have a few new amps and a touchscreen. It's a floor modeler which negates the need for me in even wanting a touchscreen. I hope it's successful but until Proxy betters Tonex or at least Kemper v1, I won't be getting one.

 

[Gary_W]

I'm actually of the same mindset. For those that don't have a modeler the Stadium is interesting but until all features are populated and the kinks are worked out I'm on the sidelines. I think it's silly watching people dump their OGs at 60% cost just to have a few new amps and a touchscreen. It's a floor modeler which negates the need for me in even wanting a touchscreen. I hope it's successful but until Proxy betters Tonex or at least Kemper v1, I won't be getting one.

That’s fair - any buying decision is of course personal and depends on where you are right now.

For me, it’s all new as I didn’t have the original Helix so it made perfect sense. I only had a 2 week trial of Native and, when that expired, I was waiting longingly to get some of those amps back. For me the value involved here was decent whereas updating my Kemper 1 to a mk2 gave me ‘nothing that I currently need plus a vague promise about better sounds soon’. If you’re already happily gigging a helix it might be a harder decision but there’s still a ton of cool new things to justify it depending on your world view.

My only issue with it is overwhelm as there is so much in there that is new to me. I will take overwhelm over ‘what’s changed’ any day.

 

[dean701]

That’s fair - any buying decision is of course personal and depends on where you are right now.

For me, it’s all new as I didn’t have the original Helix so it made perfect sense. I only had a 2 week trial of Native and, when that expired, I was waiting longingly to get some of those amps back. For me the value involved here was decent whereas updating my Kemper 1 to a mk2 gave me ‘nothing that I currently need plus a vague promise about better sounds soon’. If you’re already happily gigging a helix it might be a harder decision but there’s still a ton of cool new things to justify it depending on your world view.

My only issue with it is overwhelm as there is so much in there that is new to me. I will take overwhelm over ‘what’s changed’ any day.

Understood. IMO, for those that don't have the OG it's a safe bet that Line 6 will complete their work. I still have Native and use the 2203 and Placater extensively.
I just don't see the current Stadium worth 3300 CAD to me. I have a treasure trove of tones already between Tonex, Helix Native, an AM4 and an FM9. (Plus Genome, and the Neural plugs)

Keeping aligned with this thread, I waited for Kemper's mk2 but opted for other solutions after growing tired of waiting.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Most of the amp models are the same. Showcase only just came out, Proxy still hasn't come out. Line 6 announced it back in January. I don't understand why so many people are so excited to pay a premium for something that isn't complete yet & offers, imo, marginal improvement over the unit they already have?

Have you used one, and played it? Also, it got announced in June, not January. And it's not even been out for two months yet, and you're saying "Proxy still hasn't come out"?

 

[synthpenguin]

I hope it's successful but until Proxy betters Tonex or at least Kemper v1, I won't be getting one.

Makes sense for someone to wait for Proxy if captures are a must-have for them, but I’d be surprised if it isn’t competitive with v2 Tonex and v2 NDSP captures at launch, if not NAM, and tbh I’d be absolutely shocked if it isn’t better than v1 Kemper. There might be some growing pains since it’s a new space for them, but I don’t see them messing up that badly.

 

[dean701]

Makes sense for someone to wait for Proxy if captures are a must-have for them, but I’d be surprised if it isn’t competitive with v2 Tonex and v2 NDSP captures at launch, if not NAM, and tbh I’d be absolutely shocked if it isn’t better than v1 Kemper. There might be some growing pains since it’s a new space for them, but I don’t see them messing up that badly.

Fingers crossed. I am rooting for them.

 

[Gary_W]

Makes sense for someone to wait for Proxy if captures are a must-have for them, but I’d be surprised if it isn’t competitive with v2 Tonex and v2 NDSP captures at launch, if not NAM, and tbh I’d be absolutely shocked if it isn’t better than v1 Kemper. There might be some growing pains since it’s a new space for them, but I don’t see them messing up that badly.

If you watch the original Eric Kline video on stadium from 5 months ago, at the four minute mark he starts talking Proxy. He says something along the lines of ‘open source is already doing amazing things with captures and the jury is still out on whether Proxy goes there or not’. He then speaks of proxy going beyond captures and mentions cloud based processing.

For me, this means that ‘they’re trying to do their own thing which they fully expect to equal or beat the open source stuff. If they don’t manage that, they’ll incorporate the open source stuff’.

That might just be me reading too much into a one liner on a video but I think, because there is lots of open source info already out there, there’s no reason why smart folks cannot do a great job if they’re not constrained by existing architecture (like Kemper appear to be). Line 6 haven’t done captures before and clearly knew they wanted to when designing stadium so it stands to reason they’ll either do their own absolutely unique thing *or* build upon what’s already freely available.