Kemper Profiler MK 2

[LP59]

I get that people want that, and I have no problem with some devices offering that, but many devices could be better, more robust, and less expensive if the touch screen was offloaded.

That's already true for the broader definition of "devices". Relying on an app for the UI is widespread in digital devices these days. Mounting a touch screen on the device instead of relying on an app is an unusual peculiarity of amp sims.

 

[dws2384]

Because I don’t want to rely on a thing in my pocket for spur of the moment changes.

I got rid on my nano cortex for this reason. Yes, the app looks nice and works great on my phone it’s still a pain in the ass to always be pulling it out to adjust effects, presets, etc.

 

[quadgear]

The device can host the UI through a web app that any web browser can connect to. That shit has existed for decades.

That's a good idea. They already have wifi. Connect to the device with a web browser and edit (or view) away. Another good idea that will never see the light of day on a Kemper.

 

[texhex]

 

[Orvillain]

Funny you should mention that in a Kemper thread The toaster is now 14 years old, and going strong. There's plenty of rack gear even older than that and still in regular use.

Yeah but it sounds like grilled dick sandwiches.

 

[Lysander]

The device can host the UI through a web app that any web browser can connect to. That shit has existed for decades.

Indeed, and that is a killer feature... that no one seems to want to implement but Headrush.

 

[paisleywookiee]

You have completely missed the point. What you are talking about is an additional touch screen that increases costs and is almost always lower quality that what we have had for phones and tablets in both display and touch performance.

Nah, he gets it. He just disagrees with you. So do I. In theory, it’s a nice idea. But in practice, I think it just adds more variables for failure, regardless of connectivity method (web app, WiFi, Bluetooth, whatever). IF for whatever reason you can’t connect, you can be in trouble.

I’d like to keep the phone/tablet optional, not required.

 

[Chocol8]

Nah, he gets it. He just disagrees with you. So do I. In theory, it’s a nice idea. But in practice, I think it just adds more variables for failure, regardless of connectivity method (web app, WiFi, Bluetooth, whatever). IF for whatever reason you can’t connect, you can be in trouble.

I’d like to keep the phone/tablet optional, not required.

You will also have USB. For a large desktop device, a built in screen may make sense, for a smaller unit and anything meant to be on the floor, a touch screen on device is silly and a much bigger risk of failure, unless it stays in your bedroom I guess.

 

[paisleywookiee]

You will also have USB. For a large desktop device, a built in screen may make sense, for a smaller unit and anything meant to be on the floor, a touch screen on device is silly and a much bigger risk of failure, unless it stays in your bedroom I guess.

Eh, still disagree, but whatever works for ya. I’ve got no issue tweaking my FM9 on the floor, and it would be made easier with a well done touchscreen.

 

[Sascha Franck]

What you are talking about is an additional touch screen that increases costs and is almost always lower quality that what we have had for phones and tablets in both display and touch performance.

A half decent touchscreen can be had in cheap 100 bucks smartphones. So it can't add much to the cost. Heck, a 200 bucks Samsung Tab A has a 10" touchscreen that is better than pretty much anything you find on most modelers.

a touch screen on device is silly and a much bigger risk of failure, unless it stays in your bedroom I guess.

I have by now owned some devices with pretty large screens mounted in a floor unit. Not one of the screens ever failed - and they could as well have been touch screens.
In addition, at least with more compact devices, people put them up some stand to operate them on the unit (which works fantastically well on the QC and TMP), I'm sure the upcoming vanilla HX Stadium will be no exception here.
Besides, I need to bow down here and there anyway (both during soundchecks and gigs), and I'd rather have a touchscreen to select things than menus or dials.

 

[Chocol8]

You are only thinking raw parts costs and ignoring volume impacts and development costs. Adding a screen to millions of cheap phones is a lot less expensive than adding the same screen to thousands of modelers.

 

[laxu]

While in theory using your phone or tablet makes sense, it misses a crucial part of the experience: knobs.

If you've ever tried e.g Fracpad, or operating a QC or Hotone without ever using the knobs...it kinda sucks. Not having real, physical controls you can turn sucks. Is it usable? Sure, but it just sucks as a user experience.

If modelers offered either a proprietary knob controller, or even just sensible MIDI knob mapping features (context based editing) then it could work. You'd put your tablet wherever you want, and a small knob controller near it. But nothing on the market supports this in a way where it makes sense.

Until that happens, I'd rather have a dedicated touchscreen on the unit, plus knobs.

 

[metropolis_4]

While in theory using your phone or tablet makes sense, it misses a crucial part of the experience: knobs.

If you've ever tried e.g Fracpad, or operating a QC or Hotone without ever using the knobs...it kinda sucks. Not having real, physical controls you can turn sucks. Is it usable? Sure, but it just sucks as a user experience.

If modelers offered either a proprietary knob controller, or even just sensible MIDI knob mapping features (context based editing) then it could work. You'd put your tablet wherever you want, and a small knob controller near it. But nothing on the market supports this in a way where it makes sense.

Until that happens, I'd rather have a dedicated touchscreen on the unit, plus knobs.

There’s nothing worse than “turning” a knob on a touch screen. I know I seem to be in the minority, but I actually love sliders (like Line 6) in this setting. Just a quick tap wherever I want to set it and done. No dragging, no turning, just a tap.

 

[laxu]

There’s nothing worse than “turning” a knob on a touch screen. I know I seem to be in the minority, but I actually love sliders (like Line 6) in this setting. Just a quick tap wherever I want to set it and done. No dragging, no turning, just a tap.

Yeah on a touchscreen only UI sliders are just plain superior.

Anyone who has used the QC knows it doesn't work with a virtual knob. Your finger is going to cover the knob so you cannot see what is happening before lifting it off.

Hotone's "slider where you can drag it, or tap either side for a single number change" setup is pretty good.

 

[Sascha Franck]

You are only thinking raw parts costs and ignoring volume impacts and development costs. Adding a screen to millions of cheap phones is a lot less expensive than adding the same screen to thousands of modelers.

Touchscreens are on pretty much any cheap chinese rip off modeler. And some of them work pretty well. So why again would it add oh so much if another company would add the same MIC touchscreen?

 

[metropolis_4]

…Your finger is going to cover the knob so you cannot see what is happening before lifting it off…

I quickly abandoned Fracpad for that same reason

 

[laxu]

I quickly abandoned Fracpad for that same reason

The version I tried did actually pop up a slider on screen when adjusting a param, so I thought that was a novel solution.

Afaik the Fender TMP offers this sort of feature as well.

 

[paisleywookiee]

The version I tried did actually pop up a slider on screen when adjusting a param, so I thought that was a novel solution.

Afaik the Fender TMP offers this sort of feature as well.

IMO, the Fender UI sucks balls, compared to *gulp* the QC or even Headrush.

 

[Jarick]

I hate adjusting anything on a touch screen other than a toggle. Sliders, knobs, it all sucks. You need some kind of knobs. That's one of the big issues I had with the Headrush whenever I had one. I never had the big unit, just the smaller Gigboard and MX5. I think they had one parameter knob maybe. Super clunky to adjust but I HATE using the touch screen there.

Of course the touch screen makes general navigation and especially typing way easier. So best case scenario is a touch screen AND knobs.



When it comes to the Kemper Player, I think when fully set up it can be just fine but it would be nice to be able to fully edit on the device. That's of course something very different. It would be way better IMO with a small screen and to repurpose amp knobs to be multi control just like the Stage. But nobody ever makes a perfect digital unit so everything's a compromise.

I'm still trying to sort out my workflow, and it comes down to finding the right profiles. I just haven't played much guitar the last few weeks. I have a couple profiles I really like, but I need to set up the bank of profiles with the effects I want. Then 99% of the time I can just get quick access to what I want right on the unit without needing a screen or computer.

 

[OneEng]

Really? I have quite a few devices that rely on apps that are more than 5 years old.

In any case, if you look at Kemper Player, Tonex, etc. relying on an external editor app is the direction things are going.

I made the jump from an analog mixer to an X32 Rack with the Rack first came out (about 2013). Going without a physical interface was scary, but now I can't imagine doing it any other way.

I think the biggest problem going display less (or "headless") is the people momentum associated with physical controls and interfaces on existing pedals..... in other words, people don't like change.

The Kemper has one of the most complete MIDI implementations. It still has gaps, but it's not hard to create whatever app or hardware you want to control it and view status.

Yes, but do they include sending text from the GUI out to a remote device? They certainly do for the Kemper FC, but that is proprietary Ethernet.

In general though, I agree with you. This is completely plausible.

Yeah but it sounds like grilled dick sandwiches.

No it doesn't. That is a crazy statement in any context IME.

For those mentioning the need for physical knobs, there is some merit in this.... but it really depends on your use case.

For ME, I setup for a gig using a PC editor and automating my setlist with MIDI commands. All the sounds I will use for a song are hammered out at home with the editor and saved on the device.

At a gig, settings are called up automatically when the set manager software moves to the next song. In-song changes are performed with the Kemper FC (and an external "volume" foot controller if needed for real time morphing).

Truth be known, in my use model, there is no need for a device Ui at all.

For those that work with a pedal on a desk or rely on seeing what patch they are on while standing up, it is convenient to have an on device display. I have a tablet mounted on my mic stand, but for jam sessions with friends, I might not have. In these situations, I need to see the LCD on the FC. I still only use it for selecting a patch, not for editing a tone in real time. I have enough sounds that work for lots of songs in general (more than enough to sound impressive in a jam).

For the low cost, small devices, I can totally see the entire industry moving toward a headless design. A phone or tablet interface would be MUCH more comprehensive. Especially for something as complex as Kemper. Way better to edit on a tablet than anything you could fit on the Player.