Kemper Profiler MK 2

[DrewJD82]

This is kind of where I am as well. I suspect that I would like the way the 1st clip sat in the mix better than the 2nd .... but that is because the mids were a bit more pronounced. The truth is, after a little channel eq on the mixer, both of them would sound great (I am a big Mesa Mark IIc fan).

There's no way of knowing how it would sound in a mix without it being IN a mix, that's 100% contextual to what else is going on in the mix itself. Where everything compounds quickly in a mix, especially when you start double-quad tracking guitars, anything that's compressed-sounding going in is going to sound that much more compressed in the final result. With clip 1's compressed upper mids, if those got stacked with another track of the same the upper mids would smear and lose definition.

And I suspect what I'm hearing in a lot of ToneTalk episodes when Dave Friedman starts shitting on modeling, or even some of the producers they've had on, with "Modelers just don't sit the same way an amp does" is specifically because of things like specific areas being compressed in a modeler where they wouldn't be in an amp. This is also the reason I started dialing in my tones to sound as close to a raw amp in the room as possible, because it's REALLY easy to dial in what you want to hear right away, rather than what you need to have in the tracks so it creates what you want to hear with the rest of the instruments and then the mastering chain, which is going to compress it even more.

 

[paisleywookiee]

But we’re just discussing preferences at this point.

I thought I was pretty clear that my interest in going back to Fractal is lower than Orvillian going back to Kemper.

Yup, that’s why I said the above.

I considered the stage but I got into the Player because of its size and as a grab and go thing it’s pretty awesome. Since I got the Kemper shortly after it came out and the upgrade a lot later I viewed it as no different than the yearly taxation from Steinberg or Avid.
Plus I can’t butch since whatever mk2 will bring profiling wise it’ll run on it.


But keep in mind here I paid like 800€ for a lvl3, a FM3T is 1400€.
So if you wanna talk about value, that ain’t it.

Funnily the US pricing is way closer with lvl3 player being like 120$ less.

In the US, the FM3T is $1099 ($999 this weekend). The lvl3 upgrade is $929 total.

 

[Jarick]

I think one of the main differences in the way guys like @OneEng and me view Kemper, is that I consider the main/important aspect of Kemper’s products to be profiling/capturing real amps realistically, while he/they consider the main/important aspect of their products to be a good all-in-one-solution. That’s fair enough I guess, in that our priorities and reasons for considering the products in question differ.

I also believe both @OneEng and me had hopes and expectations that the next generation of products from Kemper would be a significant improvement, and that the Mk II thus far is a disappointment. I guess (but I’m not sure) we both are kind of worried by the fact that Kemper already has been backtracking a bit on the promises of what the new profiling will be able to deliver. And I am (@OneEng may not be) a bit worried about Kemper’s future in the market place.

That said; if I wanted the best all-in-one digital solution, I’d still look elsewhere first. To me, pretty much all the different Fractal all-in-one products are more attractive than what could be considered the Kemper counterparts. I’d also choose the Helix floor over pretty much any Kemper product in this regard.

If I were allowed to have two units, I’d prefer a Tonex/Dimehead + Fractal VP4 solution over any Kemper product.

Being free to have as many units I want on a board… - well, that’s pretty much where I am these days and theres no Kemper in sight.

But that’s just me and my preferences.

Btw; I don’t think I’ve crossed any lines with my contributions to the discussion in this thread. But I’m sorry if I have offended anyone or reduced their enjoyment of TGF. That has not been my intention.

Of the million different combinations of random crap I have laying around, I think if I were doing two units it would be an HX Stomp XL or HX Effects with either a Friedman IR-D/IR-X/IR-J or maybe even the UAD Lion. I like the simpler WYSIWYG amps and the HX stuff is super easy to use. I could pretty easily get all that dialed in from scratch with no computer.

 

[Jarick]

There's no way of knowing how it would sound in a mix without it being IN a mix, that's 100% contextual to what else is going on in the mix itself. Where everything compounds quickly in a mix, especially when you start double-quad tracking guitars, anything that's compressed-sounding going in is going to sound that much more compressed in the final result. With clip 1's compressed upper mids, if those got stacked with another track of the same the upper mids would smear and lose definition.

And I suspect what I'm hearing in a lot of ToneTalk episodes when Dave Friedman starts shitting on modeling, or even some of the producers they've had on, with "Modelers just don't sit the same way an amp does" is specifically because of things like specific areas being compressed in a modeler where they wouldn't be in an amp. This is also the reason I started dialing in my tones to sound as close to a raw amp in the room as possible, because it's REALLY easy to dial in what you want to hear right away, rather than what you need to have in the tracks so it creates what you want to hear with the rest of the instruments and then the mastering chain, which is going to compress it even more.

I'm curious to learn more about your process here. Are you using monitors, "FRFR", cans, cab/power amp?

One thing I learned from the Kemper is how useful a mid push can be. Fractal just always seems to give me the opposite of that. Finding the right IR to counter act that seems key. Honestly sometimes the Helix is better at punching through in the mids for me

 

[Orvillain]

I'm wankered right now, and I love you all.

Use whatever the fuck you want to use. I like tube amps.

@Ed DeGenaro yknow what, I've been thinking I'll sell my Axe3 once Helix Stadium is available!! I haven't even used the bloody thing, but Line6 have my balls in a vice, and I love it. Squeeze me daddy.

 

[Orvillain]

And I am (@OneEng may not be) a bit worried about Kemper’s future in the market place.

Me too. I think they're struggling tbh. I think these rounds of products they've launched recently - the player and the Mk2 - are hail Mary releases.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Yup, that’s why I said the above.



In the US, the FM3T is $1099 ($999 this weekend). The lvl3 upgrade is $929 total.

That’s what I’m saying difference in US less than 100 bucks. Here 6+ times that.

 

[Jarick]

Me too. I think they're struggling tbh. I think these rounds of products they've launched recently - the player and the Mk2 - are hail Mary releases.

Agreed. If this is all they have in the pipeline I think they're going to keep losing their user base. And if they release a true successor in a couple years people are going to be pissed if they bought a marginal upgrade and then a big new unit comes out later on. Unless it's just a monster device that costs like $2500 (which isn't out of the question with Stadium XL pricing...)

 

[riffy]

You heard it here, folks! Ed’s selling his Tylers and getting a Harley Benton to use with plugins!!

Shoot man, I’ve both seen and heard and play using the Harley Benton. As far as sound and the way he plays I wouldn’t give you a nickel difference between that Harley Benton and the Tyler. He may say otherwise, but, as far as my hearing went, he sounded fabulous with the Harley Benton.

 

[BenIfin]

This thread.

Kemper sounds fine, it’s not 100% accurate but it’s a good complete package. I reckon the going rate for the used ones are a bit of a bargain right now.

The Mkii looks rubbish, just more of the same with a mild facelift. Why didn’t they all include Bluetooth and WiFi support and variable impedence? Lazy ass fuckers.

Interesting to see some who are happy to flog profiles even if they’re a load of inaccurate shite, mental note not to buy from them ever.

And also I know it’s a gear forum but come on, that last 5% of a bull test doesn’t really mean shit.

Perhaps we could all hold off on judgment and execution of the new MK2 Profiling Process until we all hear and see it "tested" (?)

If could be effectively the same as MK1 Legacy (?) better than MK1 Legacy (?) closer to NAM/Tonex (?) or better than NAM/Tonex (?)

No-one here or on Y/T or any other forum has any idea.

 

[BenIfin]

Just for a change of pace and to put some global pricing perspective on it, the Full Stadium XL here in Oz is on pre-order for ~AUS $4300.

Thats > %25 in excess of the US currency difference .... local taxes and state taxes in the US pretty much wash each other out ...soooo holy shitballs !!!!

From memory, when the Full Helix Floor released, it was ~AUS $2800.

So the new Flagship is nearly ~%55 more than the old flagship

I cant speak for other countries, or any other fellow Aussies, but this new lineup could be a bloody hard sell down here (?)

Me - I'm loving my Stomp [EFX only] with the Simplifier X in the Loop and my MC6 Pro - so no need - I'll wait for the "Stompium" :)

 

[dws2384]

Comparing Fractal to Kemper is the only real conversation I see gigging and touring musicians have.

everyone has their bubbles. I don’t see this at all. I mostly see amps + pedalboards most of the time whether it’s an amp brought along or just using backline. I see more boss and Strymon pedals in a month than Kempers I’ve seen in a decade. HX stomps are somewhat common (along with pedalboards) generally I see modellers when people are forced to go direct and they take the path of least resistance. Seeing more of the UA pedals on boards in this case.

I like the Kemper workflow, and you seem very used to it, there’s nothing mind blowing about it that puts it up on a pedestal above anything else…you’ve made that up in your head. Fractal effects are better, so are the footswitching options, quad cortex is a better fly rig, helix snapshots are better than Kempers switching, their effects are on par, and the full lineup is more complete than Kemper - helix native is what a lot of Kemper users have wanted for years, and the player is their version of stomp that was long overdue

You can argue all you want but Kemper is kinda in the Headrush league now. It exists but I don’t really think anyone is comparing it to the top options (other than you)

 

[[Nathan]]

I cant speak for other countries, or any other fellow Aussies, but this new lineup could be a bloody hard sell down here (?)

Im getting one mainly because im doing videos and it’s going to be a 10 year investment into content. Aside from that I have an interest in the latest and greatest guitar tech so it ticks two boxes for me atm. But yes the comparative price is brutal even when you factor in conversion and import fees.

I can’t speak for anyone else but for me personally if I was a hobbyist or was in a band with an existing rig it would be an extremely hard sell on day one at that price here in AU. I guess you’d wait to see adoption and how others are going with it and if it will really upgrade whatever you’re running.

I remember axefx2s were somewhat getting picked up but ironically when kemper was released a lot of bands jumped on that bandwagon. Those same bands jumped over to QC and seem to have stuck with it. It’ll be interesting to see if they stick with qc or if some jump to the newer smaller helix stadium. Aside from all that everything that’s out there now already does a great job, you’d really want to have a big interest in next gen tech to be forking over big bucks for the latest and greatest.

 

[molul]

Im getting one mainly because im doing videos and it’s going to be a 10 year investment into content. Aside from that I have an interest in the latest and greatest guitar tech so it ticks two boxes for me atm. But yes the comparative price is brutal even when you factor in conversion and import fees.

I can’t speak for anyone else but for me personally if I was a hobbyist or was in a band with an existing rig it would be an extremely hard sell on day one at that price here in AU. I guess you’d wait to see adoption and how others are going with it and if it will really upgrade whatever you’re running.

I remember axefx2s were somewhat getting picked up but ironically when kemper was released a lot of bands jumped on that bandwagon. Those same bands jumped over to QC and seem to have stuck with it. It’ll be interesting to see if they stick with qc or if some jump to the newer smaller helix stadium. Aside from all that everything that’s out there now already does a great job, you’d really want to have a big interest in next gen tech to be forking over big bucks for the latest and greatest.

LINE 6 Helix Stadium Floor - MadridHifi

Comprar LINE 6 Helix Stadium Floor Procesador Multiefectos al Mejor Precio en Madrid Hifi. Promociones, Ofertas y Descuentos en Procesador Efectos Guitarra de Line 6.

www.madridhifi.com

I just saw the non-XL Stadium appear in a Spanish store for the first time. 2083 instead of the expected 1800€. I still want to buy it but... Pain

 

[LP59]

Me too. I think they're struggling tbh. I think these rounds of products they've launched recently - the player and the Mk2 - are hail Mary releases.

You can see from sales popularity rankings that the Rack/Toaster/Stage have taken a serious dip in sales the past couple of years, but I think the Player has been a reasonably good seller. The Kemper brand name is still synonymous with digital amp simulation in some circles. And I suspect they have low overhead with a small staff. Judging by the pace of their development, probably a very small staff.

I've seen nothing from them in the past 14 years to indicate they have any plans, or the capability, to do a second generation of product, but I think they can skate by for quite a while on Player sales. It's a mystery to me why they bothered coming out with the Mk2 Stage/Rack/Toaster though. Even if the new profiling turns out to be good, I'd be surprised if they sell enough of those to make the Mk2 worthwhile.

 

[molul]

Well I don't think the mk2 is expected to replace the mk1 for old users. It's just the Kemper lineup that people can buy now if they want one. I wouldn't expect many current owners do the jump.

 

[LP59]

Well I don't think the mk2 is expected to replace the mk1 for old users. It's just the Kemper lineup that people can buy now if they want one. I wouldn't expect many current owners do the jump.

It's hard to say why they bothered making the Mk2, but I think the most likely explanation is they were forced to take the Mk1 out of production due to lack of component availability. I'd guess the only people who will buy the Mk2 Stage/Rack/Toaster are loyal Mk1 owners who will trade in their Mk1 to get the new profiling.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

LINE 6 Helix Stadium Floor - MadridHifi

Comprar LINE 6 Helix Stadium Floor Procesador Multiefectos al Mejor Precio en Madrid Hifi. Promociones, Ofertas y Descuentos en Procesador Efectos Guitarra de Line 6.

www.madridhifi.com

I just saw the non-XL Stadium appear in a Spanish store for the first time. 2083 instead of the expected 1800€. I still want to buy it but... Pain

Isn’t that how it always goes with EU? Expected price plus VAT?
When the Chinese Tyler that are 1799$ in the US were announced I figured they’d be like 2150€. For that reason. And that’s were it clicked in.
Now at today’s exchange rate that 1800$ and 2150€ respectively is 1526€ and 2536$
Which makes it kinda nuts.

In other words a JST is 1800$/1526€ in the US and 2536$/2150€ here.
We can thank VAT, duty, exchange rate and the inflated wants of local dealers here. And that’s before reciprocal NO POLITICS happen.

But it used to be way worse. Back 30 years ago when the exchange rate for £ to $ was 1:2 a Mesa cost the same number in the UK as they did in the US.
As in a T-verb in the US was 1800$/900£ and in the UK 3600$/1800£.

Funnily enough it doesn’t go that harsh in reverse. For example a Silver Jube incl VAT in Germany is 1500€/1766$/1294£ in the UK the same, in the US 1697€/1999$/1465£

 

[BenIfin]

.... 10 year investment into content .....

Actually this is an excellent point - it will almost certainly be at least an ~8 <-> ~10 year product lifespan with regular updates .... which actually make the cost of ownership [relatively] very cheap ... especially compared to a very much smaller company like Fractal that has to refresh and update hardware to keep as much $$ coming in as possible. Line 6 is so big and its global sales are [relatively] so huge, that they do not face this same "hardware pressure" to keep their $$ and profits maintained.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I heard the Kemper does the most accurate amp capturing? Any words on this?