Kemper Profiler MK 2

[Eagle]

Okay. Just saying, it’s something we can go round and round about. I’ve done exactly what you’ve described, with a powered toaster, with about four different amps same day, and it just didn’t sound or feel as good as the FM9. Same amps (JP-2C, Triple Crown, Jube, JCM800).

It’s fine and great if you like it, obviously many people do. But it’s not definitive, ESPECIALLY high gain stuff.

I agree on high gain but I just use my vh4 for that.

 

[molul]

Yes, but contrast that with the Stadium. The Mk2 is actually shipping and has new features even though we're waiting for the new profiling, but the Stadium is not shipping. Yet the Kemper has a dramatically lower level of interest than the Stadium. It seems like there's a large difference in the amount of enthusiasm people have about the two.

Apart from mk2 being almost the same device with almost no new features, and the Stadium bringing an overwhelming amount of new stuff to the table (even though we're still months from the release and not all features will be available from day one), I also wonder why that might be.

 

[AlbertA]

I think people would be more positive about it if they called it a Kemper 1.1 or something. I know Fractal has used a MK2 moniker for a "a little better stuff" type upgrades, but with Kemper having had the same hw for so long it feels like users want something more than that.

I mean when I read MK2 I didn't expect any major upgrades - that's what MK monikers are for - is this a US thing only?

 

[Richard_G]

I don't know. In a lot of cases, I think of MK monikers as small incremental changes, often due to parts becoming obsolete and so forth.

Then you have Mesa Boogie.

With regards to Kemper; I believe people (rightfully) were expecting more after all these years.

 

[laxu]

I mean when I read MK2 I didn't expect any major upgrades - that's what MK monikers are for - is this a US thing only?

There's no real meaning to the moniker.

I think it's the lack of Kemper updating the hardware together with the marketing that makes people think of the MK2 more like a new generation of Kemper even though it isn't.

 

[molul]

To be fair, yes, mk2 is not "New flagship next gen device", and Kemper hasn't marketed it as that.

The problem is that the first profiler was released in 2011. A next gen was expected, and now that mk2 is available, nobody could realistically expect an actual next gen flagship in a few years.

 

[laxu]

To be fair, yes, mk2 is not "New flagship next gen device", and Kemper hasn't marketed it as that.

IMO all of their marketing for it had a lot of wording that makes it seem like it's so much better than the previous one.

A New Era of Effects: 20 Blocks in series
A new Era of PROFILING: KEMPER announces a new PROFILING technology for the MK 2 series. Availabilty is expected during Summer.
More than 100,000 individual frequency points meticulously analyzed for the most precise powerful amp recreation ever achieved.

Compare this to Fractal:

"Fractal Audio Systems proudly announces the immediate availability of the FM3 Mark II Turbo. This advanced, compact floor unit elevates the FM3 with a more than 10% boost in DSP power, plus larger, easier-to-read footswitch displays."

 

[Mongillo19]

It just seems more and more like Kemper trying to get ahead of a competitor (Line 6) than anything at this point.

For example, @Jarick do you think you would have tried the KPP if the Stadium had been announced prior to KP Mkii news? Or would you have just saved your money?

At the very least I think it would have made the decision a little less certain

 

[Richard_G]

The changed words in the Kemper marketing after the launch is quite embarrassing, and does not look good for those hoping the MK II would be a vast improvement.

 

[Frodebro]

I’ve spent the last 6 months touting that I have a QC and engaging in that thread - even though I think it’s the most hated device on this forum I never once received any sort of hate or bashing from anyone

Neural pulled some questionable shit at TOP when the QC was first launched, which led indirectly to the banishment of certain people and the launching of this forum. So bashing on that company comes from a slightly different place than the usual “what I have is the best and you’re a sucky poophead if you like something different” mentality. Which in itself is a shitty way to see the world.

 

[quadgear]

Neural pulled some questionable shit at TOP when the QC was first launched,

Oh do tell....

 

[molul]

Neural pulled some questionable shit at TOP when the QC was first launched, which led indirectly to the banishment of certain people and the launching of this forum. So bashing on that company comes from a slightly different place than the usual “what I have is the best and you’re a sucky poophead if you like something different” mentality. Which in itself is a shitty way to see the world.

I knew this forum's origin was some big issue at TOP, but didn't know the details. Wow...

 

[Frodebro]

Oh do tell....

I thought it was pretty well known around here. The megathread that started at the launch of the QC had a bunch of curiously brand new members who never posted anywhere else on the forum, slathered the QC with praise, and argued with people who questioned stuff about it. Suddenly long standing members found themselves perma-banned after questioning the awesomeness of the QC. There was speculation that money was being paid to TOP to censor people who bashed the QC or asked questions that put it in a bad light.

A similar thing happened at the launch of the TMP. Brand new members galore, and bans for those that didn’t embrace the emperor’s new clothes.

 

[Dez]

Neural pulled some questionable shit at TOP when the QC was first launched, which led indirectly to the banishment of certain people and the launching of this forum. So bashing on that company comes from a slightly different place than the usual “what I have is the best and you’re a sucky poophead if you like something different” mentality. Which in itself is a shitty way to see the world.

Oh yeah I know, and I mean despite all that I never had any negative interaction with any other forum members here. This place is pretty chill I think

 

[LP59]

IMO all of their marketing for it had a lot of wording that makes it seem like it's so much better than the previous one.

A New Era of Effects: 20 Blocks in series
A new Era of PROFILING: KEMPER announces a new PROFILING technology for the MK 2 series. Availabilty is expected during Summer.
More than 100,000 individual frequency points meticulously analyzed for the most precise powerful amp recreation ever achieved.

Now that they've edited that description of the new profiling, they need to put an asterisk next to "20 blocks in series". It's 16 on the Player level 1. In either case, 8 of those blocks are "fixed" effects, which are quite limited compared to the Mk1 effects.

 

[Frodebro]

Now that they've edited that description of the new profiling, they need to put an asterisk next to "20 blocks in series". It's 16 on the Player level 1. In either case, 8 of those blocks are "fixed" effects, which are quite limited compared to the Mk1 effects.

It really is too bad that they didn’t thoroughly update the signal routing capabilities, That kinda keeps them permanently behind just about everyone else at that level in the market. Even dual paths would have been a huge improvement.

 

[[Nathan]]

I thought it was pretty well known around here. The megathread that started at the launch of the QC had a bunch of curiously brand new members who never posted anywhere else on the forum, slathered the QC with praise, and argued with people who questioned stuff about it. Suddenly long standing members found themselves perma-banned after questioning the awesomeness of the QC. There was speculation that money was being paid to TOP to censor people who bashed the QC or asked questions that put it in a bad light.

A similar thing happened at the launch of the TMP. Brand new members galore, and bans for those that didn’t embrace the emperor’s new clothes.

Sounds like all new modelling platforms need a kickback fund to grease forum owners. What an incredibly sad reality that companies think about that and forum owners participate in it. Maybe just bring out a good product and people will like it, what a concept.

 

[Frodebro]

Sounds like all new modelling platforms need a kickback fund to grease forum owners. What an incredibly sad reality that companies think about that and forum owners participate in it. Maybe just bring out a good product and people will like it, what a concept.

Cliff pointed out that there was a known banned member posting under an alt in one of those threads and received a vacation for speaking up.

 

[LP59]

It really is too bad that they didn’t thoroughly update the signal routing capabilities, That kinda keeps them permanently behind just about everyone else at that level in the market. Even dual paths would have been a huge improvement.

As you can see from the past 14 years, because of the way their audio processing is designed, they can only make small changes. And, because the Mk2 doesn't add any cpu power, they were limited in the kinds of effect blocks they could add. Dual amps or even dual paths seems to be infeasible in the Kemper.

 

[Orvillain]

I’m not excusing aliasing being more prevalent in Kemper. I’m accepting the premise of that assertion. Period.
I’m asking you to have some perspective.

I have perspective. Partly it is based on owning 6 Kempers over the years, partly it is based on DSP experience, music tech experience, live experience, and audio engineering experience.

In spite of the aliasing being ‘however bad’ you can prove it to be the reality is: it isn’t bad enough to hamper Kempers efforts to create and sell their profiling equipment with great success. Kemper profiling has been very well received since 2011.

Perhaps it could've been better received if the signal quality were better? Neither of us can answer that question.

My take on your diatribe about Kemper and aliasing is you have narrowed your perspective solely to aliasing and seem to suggest everything else that Kemper can build a product on has little to no importance because aliasing has infected their product. Just because you say you haven’t done that doesn’t mean you haven’t. Your words prove it. Including your post I’m quoting from.

That i an incorrect take. Just because I haven't said a thing, doesn't mean I haven't said a thing. Okay genius.

You suggest success of sales, recordings using Kempers and industry accolades are an excuse, that I cite them to prop up an insincere question.

Bullshit. The question is sincere.

The question - why do I jump in to diminish the Kemper instead of wondering why people don't care more about aliasing - is a thoroughly insincere question. It shows that you have not been tracking my history with Kemper, my posts on Kemper going back years, or my various pro's and cons lists of the Kemper. It shows that you're just latching onto whatever the latest thing is that I've said, and are trying to use it as a weapon instead of being willing to actually have a sincere discussion about the topic. You just want to go on the attack. Which is rather ironic.

Here’s another. Why do you feel compelled to claim people just can’t hear it therefore their appreciation of Kemper is not a valid reason to support their choice? Maybe they don’t hear enough of it to be concerned?!?

I literally said: It means most people either can’t hear it, don’t care, or don’t know what it is.

So genuinely.... maybe try reading what I write instead of jumping at the bit to post your absolute twaddle.

Sure you’ll say you don’t mind their choice but then you’ll go on citing aliasing like a priest sloshing holy water on them as if they are possessed by the devil.

This is projection.

The reality of it is Kemper didn’t set out to build a perfect, aliasing free product.

How do you know what they set out to build? Are you on the development team? Were you on the beta team? Coz I was, and I'm pretty sure based on 18 years of actually making music products, I have more insight than you'd imagine.

Certainly in their efforts they would have tried to get it as perfect as reasonably possible but the goal was to introduce a viable product that would be a hit with musicians. Not a laboratory instrument that can defeat any aliasing in the process of mimicking a guitar amp.

You're acting like the aliasing is the only thing I've got an issue with, and it isn't. You're also acting like the aliasing is only so-so and isn't a real issue when it comes to audio quality. Which is wrong. The Kemper aliases in the audible range. The previous video we all posted a few times shows this. Did you even watch it? Do you even know what it is that we're actually talking about it? It doesn't seem like it. It seems like you are the priest splashing holy water to try and defeat a perceived demon. Very silly.

You could quite easily have engaged in good faith and with sincerity, and we could've had a reasonable exchange of views.

They built the Kemper Profiling Amp and it sounds good enough to be a viable product. They then went on to prove that over the last 14 years.

Sure. I've literally NEVER ARGUED OTHERWISE. GO BACK AND CHECK IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME.

That success shows that any aliasing in Kemper is of a low enough level that your peers at large in the music industry disagree with your level of alarm. And they probably would take offense at your describing them as inadequate judges of good replication of a guitar amp sound.

You can fucking spare me the faux offense and the righteous indignation, I couldn't give two fucks.

The fact that you see the mention of the success of the product as a shield from criticism is interesting. Are you the defender of the consumer? You here to defend us from our ‘lack of good judgement’? You the white knight, taking on the black knight?

Given that for my job for the last 18 years, one of the primary parts of my job was to represent the end user, then yes, actually I have a strong background in defending the consumer. In fact a large part of why I just quit my music tech job was because I was tired of the users perspective not getting through to the powers that be. Life's too short for that bullshit.

But it's neither here nor there. Because I'm not posting to "white knight" - what a thorougly stupid fucking edgelord term that is, are you fucking 12???? - the entire point of posting is to engage in a scientific, logical, analytic debate.

@MirrorProfiles appreciates it. @[Nathan] appreciates it. Pretty sure @DLC86 appreciates it. Yknow.. the technically minded guys around here are vibing with it.

But you?? You just want to try to shut people down.

You have done more than your share of declaring your criticism. We get that….yet you insist we don’t get it, that we are all deaf or in denial etc.
What is the real point you are trying to make? It isn’t that Kemper has aliasing. You wore that out a long time ago. You are after a different result. What is it?

I'll be the judge of when I've worn something out thanks. I don't bow down to priests or zealots.