Kemper Profiler MK 2

I think the thing a lot of champions of accuracy don’t understand is the creators of these devices are doing two different things. Two things these zealous few find to be in conflict.

Yes, the creators pursue accuracy as one of their primary goals because consumers make purchases based on perceived ‘value’ and accuracy is one of the few features that is objectively proven. If your device is ranking high in the accuracy competition it adds value.

They also strive to hit the benchmark of ‘good enough’ because the value is also in features that are not so easily ranked but do add value on a more personal level. One man’s frivolous feature is another man’s necessity.

They don’t hold themselves to the standard of absolute accuracy because if they did none of them would have brought anything to market yet.

They also can’t stop improvement at their last release they qualified as ‘good enough’ because the market is always moving. The competition will undermine their market share with new features and/or accuracy improvements. Marketing

So the creators of these devices, like most of the users, see managing the balance of accuracy with a bundle of more esoteric features as the correct path.

And this has the accuracy puritans screaming ‘Blasphemy!’.
 
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Enchilada Jones said:
And this has the accuracy puritans screaming blasphemy.
Click to expand...

- Moron Fight.gif
 
Enchilada Jones said:
I think the thing a lot of champions of accuracy don’t understand is the creators of these devices are doing two different things. Two things these zealous few find to be in conflict.

Yes, the creators pursue accuracy as one of their primary goals because consumers make purchases based on perceived ‘value’ and accuracy is one of the few features that is objectively proven. If your device is ranking high in the accuracy competition it adds value.

They also strive to hit the benchmark of ‘good enough’ because the value is also in features that are not so easily ranked but do add value on a more personal level. One man’s frivolous feature is another man’s necessity.

They don’t hold themselves to the standard of absolute accuracy because if they did none of them would have brought anything to market yet.

They also can’t stop improvement at their last release they qualified as ‘good enough’ because the market is always moving. The competition will undermine their market share with new features and/or accuracy improvements. Marketing

So the creators of these devices, like most of the users, see managing the balance of accuracy with a bundle of more esoteric features as the correct path.

And this has the accuracy puritans screaming ‘Blasphemy!’.
Click to expand...


Computer geeks/gamers: we have geekbench scores for processors so that we don't get fooled by adverts.
Guitarists/Audiophiles: that's stupid, why would I want to rely on facts?

So you know whether your kemper/goldplated cables etc are doing as good as they were advertised to be able to do?

Guitarists: * mutters something about tones feeling good though *
 
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FractalAudio said:
Those frequencies above 24 kHz ALIAS. A harmonic at, say, 34 kHz will alias to 14 kHz. A harmonic at 47 kHz will alias to 1 kHz.

When you distort a signal you create harmonics that go into the hundreds of kHz. If you don't oversample those harmonics alias into the audible range.
Click to expand...
Anti-aliasing filters are applied prior to doing the FFT in the DSP. In the case of a 48Khz sample rate, everything above 24Khz is removed. After the FFT and about a butt ton of other DSP, a reverse FFT is performed to bring the signal back into the time domain (out of the frequency domain) where it is sent to the D/A converter to rattle a speaker somewhere.

In between input and output it is possible to create unwanted side effects, but this isn't aliasing.

Nyquist theorem states that all frequencies below the Nyquist frequency can be exactly recreated into an analog signal.
quadgear said:
The issue is those frequencies above Nyquist reflect back down to the audible range due to aliasing. It's often a secondary effect compared to the main signal, but you can hear it if you have that ear (and those who can hear it, cannot unhear it).

IMHO the Kemper sounds great, is likely to sound better with the upgrades, some of those improvements will be esoteric and only matter to highly trained ears in studio environments ... and those who compare stats like null tests.
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I suspect that any artifacts found in a digital amp are likely a creation of poor filtering and processing algorithms that create the artifacts. Oversampling helps to minimize these side effects.

These discussions are largely irrelevant as you point out that sounding good is still sounding good.

There was a time when all amps attempted to eliminate all distortion. Someone came along and decided that it was a desirable sound and today we have metal ;).
Enchilada Jones said:
I think the thing a lot of champions of accuracy don’t understand is the creators of these devices are doing two different things. Two things these zealous few find to be in conflict.

Yes, the creators pursue accuracy as one of their primary goals because consumers make purchases based on perceived ‘value’ and accuracy is one of the few features that is objectively proven. If your device is ranking high in the accuracy competition it adds value.

They also strive to hit the benchmark of ‘good enough’ because the value is also in features that are not so easily ranked but do add value on a more personal level. One man’s frivolous feature is another man’s necessity.

They don’t hold themselves to the standard of absolute accuracy because if they did none of them would have brought anything to market yet.

They also can’t stop improvement at their last release they qualified as ‘good enough’ because the market is always moving. The competition will undermine their market share with new features and/or accuracy improvements. Marketing

So the creators of these devices, like most of the users, see managing the balance of accuracy with a bundle of more esoteric features as the correct path.

And this has the accuracy puritans screaming ‘Blasphemy!’.
Click to expand...
I do believe that Kemper is DSP limited ..... certainly more so than an Axe III Fx. At the end of the day, there are plenty of people out there that can't tell the difference between Kemper, QC, and the amp.... this is tripply true if the guitar is in the mix.... and even more so in a live event.

As such, your stated "good enough" is reached quite easily. For those that work in more .... pristine environments .... like their bedroom or a recording studio, good tone with a very low noise floor is more important. Even there, there are plenty of Kemper's out there doing studio work.

My last couple of times down to Austin and New Orleans, I found a surprising number of Kempers in the wild. Same thing for Nashville. I see them more frequently in more highly paid bands where the guitar player can find more than a couple of dimes to rub together after bills are paid.

Still, Kemper has been claiming that you can't get any better accuracy than what they were doing for over 10 years. After QC was released, it was obvious that this wasn't true. Now they are marketing a more accurate profile ..... kind of hypocritical, so I can see why the "accuracy puritans" are screaming.

Generally, it has been my experience since 2013 that when Kemper does something (new reverb, morphing, new delay, etc), they have delivered it very well. If the company is claiming the most accurate reproduction ever achieved, and they have been fending off YEARS of forum posts showing NULL tests, my guess is they are either bat shit crazy, or that they have the goods.

Personally, I hope it is the later.

It is ironic though that the MK2 hasn't changed the DSP or SRAM from MK1. Makes you wonder why they couldn't do the new algorithm on MK1 as well.
 
Dom Mcsweeney said:
Computer geeks/gamers: we have geekbench scores for processors so that we don't get fooled by adverts.
Guitarists/Audiophiles: that's stupid, why would I want to rely on facts?

So you know whether your kemper/goldplated cables etc are doing as good as they were advertised to be able to do?

Guitarists: * mutters something about tones feeling good though *
Click to expand...
Interesting analogy. Gamers that live and die by geekbench scores and then never play any game under 4K ;).

I also like your gold plated cables comment. Lots of people still buying these at Guitar Center.... even the digital cables!
 
OneEng said:
Anti-aliasing filters are applied prior to doing the FFT in the DSP. In the case of a 48Khz sample rate, everything above 24Khz is removed. After the FFT and about a butt ton of other DSP, a reverse FFT is performed to bring the signal back into the time domain (out of the frequency domain) where it is sent to the D/A converter to rattle a speaker somewhere.
Click to expand...
Just think about it for a little bit. Imagine a 20KHz sine wave. Now square it in the digital domain. Boom now you have a 40 KHz signal. If you didn’t operate at a higher sampling rate (ie 80Khz and above), the result is an aliased sine wave in the audible range.

How exactly would you apply an anti-aliasing filter here without raising the sample rate?

OneEng said:
In between input and output it is possible to create unwanted side effects, but this isn't aliasing.
Click to expand...
You are thinking linear systems only.

OneEng said:
Nyquist theorem states that all frequencies below the Nyquist frequency can be exactly recreated into an analog signal.
Click to expand...
Indeed.

OneEng said:
I suspect that any artifacts found in a digital amp are likely a creation of poor filtering and processing algorithms that create the artifacts. Oversampling helps to minimize these side effects.
Click to expand...
Over sampling (ie operating at a higher sample rate) is necessary to avoid aliasing due to higher frequencies CREATED entirely in the digital domain (frequencies that did not exist before) by a non-linear operation.

It’s is Nyquist sample theorem that explains why you need to increase the sample rate in the first place.
 
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