Kemper Profiler MK 2

Kemper might as well throw in the towel now. It’s 2025, and they aren’t even in the same decade.

Well, the good thing being that if the Helixes will stay at that price tag, Kemper will have to lower their asking price for yet another 200 bucks or so. At the end of the year you'd possibly be able to buy a Mk1 Stage for 600-ish or so (already seen one /w Mission EXP for around 900). Unpowered heads may even scratch the €500 mark. And at that price I may just get one as a permanently connected unit for my home noodling duties.
 
Well, the good thing being that if the Helixes will stay at that price tag, Kemper will have to lower their asking price for yet another 200 bucks or so. At the end of the year you'd possibly be able to buy a Mk1 Stage for 600-ish or so (already seen one /w Mission EXP for around 900). Unpowered heads may even scratch the €500 mark. And at that price I may just get one as a permanently connected unit for my home noodling duties.
Yeah, there are definitely some price adjustments coming. It'll be hard to keep the price of the FM9 at $1799 if you can get a Helix Stadium for that.
 
Yeah, there are definitely some price adjustments coming. It'll be hard to keep the price of the FM9 at $1799 if you can get a Helix Stadium for that.

FM9 MkII Turbo (the only one available here) is even 2.299,00 €, so in case the Dollar/EU asking price for the Stadiums will be roughly 1:1 (which it sort of has been for the last years for L6 products), that's 500 bucks of a difference.
As far as rating one vs. the other goes, I think we'll have to wait until the first Stadium units are in the wild.
 
The proof of the pudding will be in the eating. The quality of the amp sims, the FX and the workflow will have considerable influence on what people prefer to work with.
 
The quality of the amp sims, the FX and the workflow will have considerable influence on what people prefer to work with.

Absolutely.
But from what I've seen so far, at least regarding on-unit workflow, the new Stadiums may almost mop the floor with anything else.
Just the capacitive switches have already been most excellent - and now you're getting a touchscreen in addition to quickly select all the things you haven't mapped to switches (possibly my biggest gripe with the previous versions) and two more encoders, which will reduce page scrolling greatly I think.
The new swipe/morph onscreen editing looks great, too - but very obviously, this needs further exploration to be able to tell.
But even without that, this will likely set the new bar for userfriendly UIs that everyone else will from now on have to compete with.
 
Fender is probably even more guilty of that. Coming out with a product that on day one is years behind the competition is a recipe for failure.
It's impossible to be the newcomer and match the feature set of the top brands on launch, if you want to make some money to support that development. Fender could have done more work to come out with a stronger product from the start, e.g fix those early amp/cab modeling issues, add more Fender amps etc. to differentiate the product beyond "We have a UI for people who hate the more abstract modeler UIs".

I've said it before that the Quad Cortex was on borrowed time too, and that time is coming to a close by the end of the year - depending on the launch feature set of the Helix Stadium of course.

For Kemper I don't feel sorry at all. They dug their own hole years ago by taking a long time to put out requested form factors. It took Line6 only 3 years from Helix release to put out the HX Stomp. From the release of the original Kemper, it took them 6 years to release the Stage, and 10 years to release the Player. Imagine if in 10 years they had put out a re-imagined Kemper Mk2 instead.

Ok, Kemper is a much smaller company than Line6/Yamaha Guitar Group. What about vs Fractal? FM3 was 1 year after Axe-Fx 3, FM9 came 4 years after Axe-Fx 3.
 
Market share charts in december 2025 and december 2026 would be really interesting to see.

I think it'll take longer for whatever new products to have a noticeable impact. Sure, in percentages, the new HX flagship will likely rule them all in the higher end market, but in overall usage, it'll possibly not be too much of a direct change.

I mean, many people seem to be very happy with what they have. Myself included. If I had to keep just my two current rigs until the end of my guitar playing life, it wouldn't have much of an impact on my musical outcome (if any at all) or my incentives to grab a guitar and play.

Fractal owners seem to be largely happy with what they have, same even goes for plenty of Kemper folks and it also goes for HX users. So why spend more money? Not everyone is like some forumites always buying the latest and greatest. In fact, most players I know in reallife very rarely do, they just stick with what works and what they're familiar with.

And unlike 10 years ago when the first Helix launched, these days the market seems pretty saturated, and for many existing modeler owners there'd need to be some serious incentives to buy something new. Let alone that back then "quality" modeling was still pretty new, these days it's the norm. Even some lower end devices provide partially excellent sounds, even satisfying some quite demanding players. Add to this faster computers, better interfaces, easier DAW accessibility and the incredible amount of stuff you can get for dirt cheap or even free (think NAM) and unless they really need/want a dedicated hardware device, many people seem to be getting away just nicely (as would I in case I didn't have my live setups already).

So, while the Helix Stadium very likely is quite a step forward, looking at the big picture it likely will have quite less of an impact than the original Helix 10 years ago. It'll likely still outnumber the direct competition in sales, possibly by quite a margin.
 
I think it'll take longer for whatever new products to have a noticeable impact. Sure, in percentages, the new HX flagship will likely rule them all in the higher end market, but in overall usage, it'll possibly not be too much of a direct change.

I mean, many people seem to be very happy with what they have. Myself included. If I had to keep just my two current rigs until the end of my guitar playing life, it wouldn't have much of an impact on my musical outcome (if any at all) or my incentives to grab a guitar and play.

Fractal owners seem to be largely happy with what they have, same even goes for plenty of Kemper folks and it also goes for HX users. So why spend more money? Not everyone is like some forumites always buying the latest and greatest. In fact, most players I know in reallife very rarely do, they just stick with what works and what they're familiar with.

And unlike 10 years ago when the first Helix launched, these days the market seems pretty saturated, and for many existing modeler owners there'd need to be some serious incentives to buy something new. Let alone that back then "quality" modeling was still pretty new, these days it's the norm. Even some lower end devices provide partially excellent sounds, even satisfying some quite demanding players. Add to this faster computers, better interfaces, easier DAW accessibility and the incredible amount of stuff you can get for dirt cheap or even free (think NAM) and unless they really need/want a dedicated hardware device, many people seem to be getting away just nicely (as would I in case I didn't have my live setups already).

So, while the Helix Stadium very likely is quite a step forward, looking at the big picture it likely will have quite less of an impact than the original Helix 10 years ago. It'll likely still outnumber the direct competition in sales, possibly by quite a margin.
Agreed. I don't see Helix Stadium being the device with most users in at least a few years.

But I would be curious, for instance, about how many QC units sold this year and how many will sell in 2026, to kind of evaluate the impact of Stadium
 
I think L6 will easily take the market in the €1300-2000 bracket (yes, I know, the Stadiums are priced somewhat higher, but people will think like "uh, for 200 bucks more I'll get 1000 bucks worth of additional features"), at least for a while. I just think that, due to the saturated market, overall sales will be quite less than some years back.
 
Agreed. I don't see Helix Stadium being the device with most users in at least a few years.

But I would be curious, for instance, about how many QC units sold this year and how many will sell in 2026, to kind of evaluate the impact of Stadium
I wouldn’t bet against it.

Almost every guitar store in the world sells Yamaha/Line 6. Not many people outside guitar forums know about fractal and outside of the US they aren’t that easy to get.
 
Line6 via Yamaha have a very powerful distribution network.
More than that, I would just like to know how many people would still prefer QC over Stadium Floor. It's still way smaller, but honestly, and I don't have big feet, I think the Stadium footprint is the best balance. And it also has an internal power supply.

It would be funny seeing NDSP and Kemper staff reactions to yesterday's presentation.

Although to be fair, although Helix Stadium seems to be the new hot chick in town, this never lasts forever, and at some point another challenger will rise the bar again.
 
It's impossible to be the newcomer and match the feature set of the top brands on launch, if you want to make some money to support that development. Fender could have done more work to come out with a stronger product from the start, e.g fix those early amp/cab modeling issues, add more Fender amps etc. to differentiate the product beyond "We have a UI for people who hate the more abstract modeler UIs".

I've said it before that the Quad Cortex was on borrowed time too, and that time is coming to a close by the end of the year - depending on the launch feature set of the Helix Stadium of course.

For Kemper I don't feel sorry at all. They dug their own hole years ago by taking a long time to put out requested form factors. It took Line6 only 3 years from Helix release to put out the HX Stomp. From the release of the original Kemper, it took them 6 years to release the Stage, and 10 years to release the Player. Imagine if in 10 years they had put out a re-imagined Kemper Mk2 instead.

Ok, Kemper is a much smaller company than Line6/Yamaha Guitar Group. What about vs Fractal? FM3 was 1 year after Axe-Fx 3, FM9 came 4 years after Axe-Fx 3.

You don't necessarily see a feature for feature match, but wouldn't you agree that with tech products in general, when a new product is launched into the market, the newcomer brings something new that that gives the consumer a reason to buy it instead of the established competition. Fractal, Kemper, NDSP all did that. Fender, not so much. It's been a constant struggle since their launch to just get up to where they can be considered a serious competitor in the >$1000 class. IMHO that makes them the most vulnerable here.

But yes, if Kemper suffers a decline, they have only themselves to blame.
 
You don't necessarily see a feature for feature match, but wouldn't you agree that with tech products in general, when a new product is launched into the market, the newcomer brings something new that that gives the consumer a reason to buy it instead of the established competition. Fractal, Kemper, NDSP all did that. Fender, not so much. It's been a constant struggle since their launch to just get up to where they can be considered a serious competitor in the >$1000 class. IMHO that makes them the most vulnerable here.
Totally. I remember when the Fender TMP launched and thought "cool, but it doesn't do anything other products don't already do". The only draw was the UI and the "Helix-meets-QC" format. It could have been e.g "the modeler for Fender gear fans" to differentiate.

There's several games played for modelers just based on pricing:
  • The bottom of the barrel <200 €. This is either super compact units like Tonex One, Valeton GP-5, or larger multifx with dated modeling aimed at beginners.
  • The budget end 200-400 €. Valeton, Mooer. Hotone Ampero 2 Stomp at the top end and cusp of categories. This is huge for countries with far lower wages than most of Europe/US.
  • The mid-tier 400-700€: Boss GX-10/100, GT-1000 Core, Headrush, Kemper Player, HX Stomp and Hotone Ampero 2/Stage, Strymon Iridium, UAFX pedals etc.
  • The mid-high end 800-1100€: Helix LT, Boss GT-1000, Headrush Prime
  • The high end 1200 € and up: Helix Floor/Rack, Kemper Stage/Toaster/Rack, QC, Fender TMP, Fractal, upcoming Helix Stadium
The high end is a wider scale compared to the others. I think people are less budget conscious in that price range where they'd rather pay the extra for Fractal even in Europe if they think it is truly the best. Similarly the price difference between say QC, TMP, Kemper or Helix Floor is not a factor.

I don't know if the Helix Stadium pricing in EU will be "dollar price in euros" or higher than that, but if we assume it's going to be 1799 €/ 2199 € then the only reason to buy the competition is that you want something smaller or rack format.
 
I don't know if the Helix Stadium pricing in EU will be "dollar price in euros" or higher than that, but if we assume it's going to be 1799 €/ 2199 € then the only reason to buy the competition is that you want something smaller or rack format.

The current Helix is "dollar price in euros" isn't it? Fractal has always had it tough in europe because they can't do that, so this may kill FM9 sales there entirely.
 
Totally. I remember when the Fender TMP launched and thought "cool, but it doesn't do anything other products don't already do". The only draw was the UI and the "Helix-meets-QC" format. It could have been e.g "the modeler for Fender gear fans" to differentiate.
And now it's risking becoming the Fisher-Price modeler. Sound quality that can hang, but no distinguishing features or content. It's for that subset of people who want a high end modeler, but don't want deep features or really to learn how to use anything.

If it was the king of all historical Fender sounds, that would be a pigeonhole, yes. But a valuable one. So far, they've decided players are more interested in two Blues Juniors and both head and combo versions of the Bassbreaker than they were in a raft of famous amps -m fender and otherwise. Very Fisher-Price.
 
The current Helix is "dollar price in euros" isn't it? Fractal has always had it tough in europe because they can't do that, so this may kill FM9 sales there entirely.

Yeah, G66 handles all Fractal distribution in Europe, and their prices are very high compared to the US. Whereas you can buy Line 6 gear anywhere, at pretty much the exact same price (converted).

Being part of YGGs distribution network has a lot of benefits.
 
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