If you’re considering a modeler, you should probably read this first

[Piing]

making a list of everyone using studio monitors with absolutely no room treatment




(I kid, but its also the best upgrade you can do for everything related to listening to and recording music)

Indeed. My favorite monitors are Auralex Wedges and Auralex Lernd. A good investment.

The most expensive monitors can sound like crap in an untreated room, and cheapos can sound decent in a properly acoustically balanced room.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

The most expensive monitors can sound like crap in an untreated room, and cheapos can sound decent in a properly acoustically balanced room.

Yep, and positioning of the speakers and listener is really important too.

Most of the time, if the room isn’t treated, the user can be largely just EQing the influence the room is having on the sound rather than what the source actually sounds like. Especially when it comes to lows and midrange. Being able to trust what you’re hearing is so important if you want sounds to translate

 

[Jarick]

Each set of headphones can sound drastically different. Some require a lot of correction to be anywhere near flat.

Atm I have:

• Sennheiser HD6XX. Relatively neutral out of the box so works well. I use these with my Axe-Fx 3. The HD6XX is an actual model number, a variant of the HD650 sold by Drop.com.
• Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250 Ohm. These are super comfortable but have way overhyped highs. They absolutely need correction to work. Due to the comfort I use these with my Mac and PC for everyday listening with correction from EqualizerAPO/Peace (Windows) or SoundSource (MacOS).
• Jabra Elite 85H. I use these just for work, my workplace got them for me because my old Intel Macbook Pro was making too much fan noise for people to hear me during meetings with its built in mic.
• AKG K-271 Mk2 or something like that.
• AKG K-400.

The Jabra sucks for guitar and the AKGs are noticeably worse than the HD6XX or DT990. All are fine for listening to music.

What you lose with headphones is the interaction between the guitar and speakers. Fractal can emulate this with the "Gain Enhancer" in the Amp block Output compression section. On top of that not having space for sound to reverberate makes cab sims sound weird unless you add a room reverb, or mix in room IRs.

Yeah totally agree. My mains right now are the Sennheiser HD600 and secondary are the Beyer DT880. I use the Beyer when the Senns are sounding dark occasionally as a change of pace. I used the HD6xx for years and now I use it for iPad or Nintendo Switch.

Closed back I’ve got the Beyer DT770 which are comfy but bright and the AKG K371 which are flat but boring. Also got the Meze 99 Noir which is super light and easy to drive but has a bass heavy sound. I don’t use closed backs much anymore due to tinnitus.

For Bluetooth I’ve got the Sony XM5, Bose 700, and Sennheiser M4. The Sennheisers sound the best but get uncomfortable, Bose are kind of neutral but sound a bit weird and are uncomfortable, Sony are super comfy but sound muffled and left is louder than right (tried three pairs all have the same issue). No great choices.

 

[la szum]

Does it give you an accurate representation of your sound? It that makes sense? Or does it boost the bass and more so just fun to play on your own vs in a mix

Kind of depends on how you use them. The cool thing is you can switch it off/on and compare, to
make sure you are not hyping the low end too much.

For me it is mostly a filler and I set the crossover between 80 and 100Hz. It takes some of that low
end load off the monitors and allows them to breathe a little more. It helps with headroom, too,
since low-end takes more power to generate.

Oh, and my tastes are that low end has been artificially hyped and amped up in most music (including guitars!)
for 30+ years now and it just grows and grows. It's not about adding a Kicker to my trunk and then
rolling slow down the street while I crank some Hip Hop.

But if that is what someone wants it certainly can do that and rattle shit off of your shelves.

 

[la szum]

making a list of everyone using studio monitors with absolutely no room treatment




(I kid, but its also the best upgrade you can do for everything related to listening to and recording music)

Hey, not everyone is trying to be Bob Clearmountain or Andy Wallace up in here.

 

[Jarick]

making a list of everyone using studio monitors with absolutely no room treatment




(I kid, but its also the best upgrade you can do for everything related to listening to and recording music)

That's next on my list, I was doing some research on building DIY acoustic panels last week.

Going to put two big ones in the corners behind the monitors, then some smaller ones throughout the room.

 

[DrewJD82]

Hey, not everyone is trying to be Bob Clearmountain or Andy Wallace up in here.

 

[la szum]

Stop making and listening to music until you get your room completely dead. Got it!

No idea how so much great music got created in awful spaces. Some of which became
iconic places to make music precisely because they were awful spaces----er, I mean spaces
with their own character.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Stop making and listening to music until you get your room completely dead. Got it!

No idea how so much great music got created in awful spaces. Some of which became
iconic places to make music precisely because they were awful spaces----er, I mean spaces
with their own character.

I could make delicious soup in my bathtub but I prefer to do it in my kitchen.

TBF my comment was more about modellers and studio monitors - Studio monitors are only as good as the room they’re in. If hearing things accurately isn’t important then just use any old speakers, no point spending loads on monitors and then hearing them do funky stuff.

Room treatment isn’t going to make you write better or worse or feel more or less inspired. If you can trust what you hear, then it just makes your life easier. Even if the goal isn’t to mix or master professionally, if you want your sounds to translate to other systems well, or you want to hear things as they’re actually meant to sound, then a bit of room treatment is nothing to be afraid of.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

Stop making and listening to music until you get your room completely dead. Got it!

Once I started learning about acoustics I fell into these sort of negative thinking patterns. It wasn't healthy for the creative mind but it did light a fire under my ass to source the materials and build 12 2ft x 4ft absorption panels and sand-filled speaker stands.

 

[FuzzyAce]

I could make delicious soup in my bathtub but I prefer to do it in my kitchen.

TBF my comment was more about modellers and studio monitors - Studio monitors are only as good as the room they’re in. If hearing things accurately isn’t important then just use any old speakers, no point spending loads on monitors and then hearing them do funky stuff.

Room treatment isn’t going to make you write better or worse or feel more or less inspired. If you can trust what you hear, then it just makes your life easier. Even if the goal isn’t to mix or master professionally, if you want your sounds to translate to other systems well, or you want to hear things as they’re actually meant to sound, then a bit of room treatment is nothing to be afraid of.

100%. All of this is the main reason I use headphones most of the time for recording or mixing, and I don't have to play quietly late at night. My music room isn't huge so some targeted acoustic treatment would be beneficial, but I've put most of that treatment and absorption into the walk-in closet for cutting acoustics, amp miking or vocals.

 

[Stratzrus]

Right on their website, if you click on that link.

ATH-M40x

Step up to the advanced design of M-Series professional headphones with the ATH-M40x studio monitor headphones. The high-quality build makes for a pair of lightweight yet durable wired headphones ...

www.audio-technica.com

Thanks again.

They arrived today and I do like them better than the Sony MDR 7506 pair I have.

 

[la szum]

I could make delicious soup in my bathtub but I prefer to do it in my kitchen.

TBF my comment was more about modellers and studio monitors - Studio monitors are only as good as the room they’re in. If hearing things accurately isn’t important then just use any old speakers, no point spending loads on monitors and then hearing them do funky stuff.

Room treatment isn’t going to make you write better or worse or feel more or less inspired. If you can trust what you hear, then it just makes your life easier. Even if the goal isn’t to mix or master professionally, if you want your sounds to translate to other systems well, or you want to hear things as they’re actually meant to sound, then a bit of room treatment is nothing to be afraid of.

Uhmmmmm.... thanks. I understand the reasoning and logic pretty well.

I am just saying treatment is not always necessary, never has been, and that more great music has, arguably, been made
without it than with it. There's a million reasons NOT to do something. Should I enjoy music less because I am getting a
build up at 160Hz in the room where I am listening to music in??

For me, allowing details to become obstacles..... or insinuating that you need to do A,B,C.... X,Y, and Z before you are deemed
worthy to create by the latest gatekeepers---who are deeming to the world what is and is not acceptable---is never something
I have been into.

Oh, and pretty sure audiophiling is one of the worst of all possible ways to live life. I'd rather enjoy, live, and appreciate than
chronically overanalyze everything I hear, or think I hear in the music, but is coming from the room the music is in.

Do love some strategically dampened reflections and bass traps, though.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Uhmmmmm.... thanks. I understand the reasoning and logic pretty well.

I am just saying treatment is not always necessary, never has been, and that more great music has, arguably, been made
without it than with it. There's a million reasons NOT to do something. Should I enjoy music less because I am getting a
build up at 160Hz in the room where I am listening to music in??

For me, allowing details to become obstacles..... or insinuating that you need to do A,B,C.... X,Y, and Z before you are deemed
worthy to create by the latest gatekeepers---who are deeming to the world what is and is not acceptable---is never something
I have been into.

Oh, and pretty sure audiophiling is one of the worst of all possible ways to live life. I'd rather enjoy, live, and appreciate than
chronically overanalyze everything I hear, or think I hear in the music, but is coming from the room the music is in.

Do love some strategically dampened reflections and bass traps, though.

there's all kinds of insinuations here about stuff that is totally missing the point of what I was getting at. I couldn't give a toss about what this has to do with gatekeeping, audiophiling, overanalysing, life, enjoyment etc. You've essentially decided that the combination of studio monitors and room treatment as something that is for gatekeepers and audiophiles in lab coats and will somehow neutralise your creativity.

The point I was making is studio monitors which are designed to perform accurately, will only do so if considerations are made to the room.

Treatment isn't necessary, but neither are studio monitors. I think if people are using studio monitors in the first place, they are PROBABLY trying to achieve a more accurate representation of what they are listening to. If that isn't the goal, then its a slightly baffling choice of speaker to go for, but whatever.

I'm absolutely not an audiophile at all - that is an industry full of snake oil and bullshit. I am an audio engineer and mixer for my work, and if I have experiences of learning from my mistakes that may benefit others and save them having to struggle like I did, then I'd rather share my experience/help.

Regarding the comment about where great music has been made, I think its a very hard statement to quantify. A lot of albums that I love were made in all kinds of conditions. VERY few of them didn't at least pass through a decent mixing or mastering studio, and basically all of them involved some seriously talented people and circumstances that allowed the magic happen. Maybe a kid working entirely on a laptop and mastering on LANDR would be some kind of exception.

Sometimes doing something the hard way can be more rewarding or lead to something different. Is that a good justification to always make everything as difficult as possible, and avoid things that make music easier?

 

[la szum]

No one would ever set out to intentionally design or make a space like Sun Studios or Muscle Shoals these
days. There is too much that is not right about those spaces. Fucking eh, damn near everything is wrong about
them. They are awful by today's standards. Horrible!

And yet.....

This notion of making a neutral space that objectively mirrors or reflects some kind of raw input is not a requirement
to make music for everyone that makes music. Hell, some people like going in a completely different direction than
that and seek out polluted and compromised spaces----precisely because they are more interesting and have something
to impart to the music, not take away from it.

Just different aesthetic approaches.

One is more clinical and sterile. The other is more organic and relational. Some like bleed in their mics. Some like total isolation.
Aesthetic choices are not writ in stone. And if they are we have dynamite to blow that stone to bits!

 

[MirrorProfiles]

No one would ever set out to intentionally design or make a space like Sun Studios or Muscle Shoals these days

Not sure why you assume that, theres loads of vibey and unique studios being made all the time by eccentric and passionate musicians and producers. If anything, those kinds of studios have more to offer than the more plain run of the mill type these days. No one is trying to make studios that kill creativity and inspiration

 

[timbuck3]

tube stereo power amp will solve the playback issues

 

[TSJMajesty]

Not sure why you assume that, theres loads of vibey and unique studios being made all the time by eccentric and passionate musicians and producers. If anything, those kinds of studios have more to offer than the more plain run of the mill type these days. No one is trying to make studios that kill creativity and inspiration

That was fascinating stuff. I woke up to take a leak at 3, and now it's 430 and I've got to be up in 2 hours. Thanks for that!!

 

[paisleywookiee]

That was fascinating stuff. I woke up to take a leak at 3, and now it's 430 and I've got to be up in 2 hours. Thanks for that!!

Why are you checking TGF when you get up to pee? Seeing if we have any grip tips?

 

[la szum]

Not sure why you assume that, theres loads of vibey and unique studios being made all the time by eccentric and passionate musicians and producers. If anything, those kinds of studios have more to offer than the more plain run of the mill type these days. No one is trying to make studios that kill creativity and inspiration

Geesh! You sound like me now.