If you’re considering a modeler, you should probably read this first

I could have used this article 4 years and $7,328 ago. :ROFLMAO:


Having a good set of studio monitors and a cab is great so you can surf between whatever is motivating you at the time. The problem is thinking there is one perfect solution.
 
Whizzinby said:
I could have used this article 4 years and $7,328 ago. :ROFLMAO:


Having a good set of studio monitors and a cab is great so you can surf between whatever is motivating you at the time. The problem is thinking there is one perfect solution.
Click to expand...
The solution should fit the goal. The goal cant be I want it to do everything all at once. Part of the problem and understandably so is many guitar players really dont know and want nothing to do with the audio engineering side of things. In the room, amp sounds great. At the gig, amp sounds great. When they get the recording back, amp sounds great. Solo the track? Amp may not sound so great. I really am starting to think opinion on guitar tone really cant fairly be formed outside of the context of its intended performance. “That sounds beefy as FVCK” turns into “I cant hear the bass or kick”. Is it good tone? Solo sure, but it isnt doing the job it has to so what makes it objectively good? It isnt, until it is.
 
Whizzinby said:
I could have used this article 4 years and $7,328 ago. :ROFLMAO:


Having a good set of studio monitors and a cab is great so you can surf between whatever is motivating you at the time. The problem is thinking there is one perfect solution.
Click to expand...

Glasses Why Dont We Have Both GIF by nounish ⌐◨-◨


(Stolen lol)
 
So far I've only used my Helix with headphones and mainly for recording. Only once have I run it into an amp. Sounded fine.
It should be pretty obvious that you're going to have to tweak your sound with different speakers, whether they're in a guitar amp, monitors or headphones.
 
The astonishing thing is that there are so many dumb guitarist (and anti-modeler philosophers) not able to figure out that basic principle by themselves, and they keep crying at the forums "ma modeler doesn't sound like my roaring amp, wah wah wah" 😭😭😭
Sad Gene Simmons GIF by TrueReal
 
Bruce said:
blog.line6.com

Eric Klein: At Least Half of Your Modeler’s Sound Is Determined by Your Playback System - Model Citizens

The Helix mastermind details the pros and cons of seven popular playback options and explains why your choice is critical to your tone.
blog.line6.com
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la szum said:
Oh, he's wrong as the day is long.


It's more than half. Well more.


Nodding Yep GIF by Next Level Chef
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It is so refreshing to hear one of the "big 3" be so genuine and transparent about (a) the truth and (b) what's in their modelers will only get you so far.

Personal preferences notwithstanding, whenever the next thread arises saying that the Axe or Helix or Kemper are "the best" ... this should be mandatory "first thing to read".

Ben

PS: That JCM800 simply cannot be a co-incidence (?)
 
I think there’s some course correction that has to happen from the moment "FRFR" came into existence. There was a promise in the marketing (explicit or implicit) that we could get any cab sounds we wanted at any volume from one speaker source. And considering how mind blowing the modeling is up to the point of the playback system, it was worth considering that maybe they cracked the code on that too. So I think that feeds some of the strong emotions on this subject.

And then there’s just naïveté any of us can have when jumping into unfamiliar technologies. Back in the day I was pulling out my hair trying to get the original Cubase software to work on my sorely underpowered computer. I just had no idea what I was doing or getting into. I can see that being a factor in many people buying a nice modeler and then hooking it up to cheap speakers.
 
ragingplatypi said:
I think there’s some course correction that has to happen from the moment "FRFR" came into existence. There was a promise in the marketing (explicit or implicit) that we could get any cab sounds we wanted at any volume from one speaker source. And considering how mind blowing the modeling is up to the point of the playback system, it was worth considering that maybe they cracked the code on that too. So I think that feeds some of the strong emotions on this subject.

And then there’s just naïveté any of us can have when jumping into unfamiliar technologies. Back in the day I was pulling out my hair trying to get the original Cubase software to work on my sorely underpowered computer. I just had no idea what I was doing or getting into. I can see that being a factor in many people buying a nice modeler and then hooking it up to cheap speakers.
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The thing is, you can get those sounds. If you want to hear what a Marshall 4X12 sounds like thru a 50 dollar Bose speaker, you can. Expecting it to sound like that amp right next to you is just unrealistic. Thats what guitar players need to understand. you have to compare apples to apples of the intended final expected result.
 
ragingplatypi said:
There was a promise in the marketing (explicit or implicit) that we could get any cab sounds we wanted at any volume from one speaker source. And considering how mind blowing the modeling is up to the point of the playback system, it was worth considering that maybe they cracked the code on that too. So I think that feeds some of the strong emotions on this subject.
Click to expand...

Indeed. That was a false promise. Air pressure pumping you guts cannot be modeled. It is a a physical perception that doesn't come through the ears but though wave impacts on the whole body
 
I feel validated by Eric. This is the reason why...
a) presets from other people rarely sound that good. Besides other pickups, guitars, fingers, etc. they simply have other playback situations. Even if the text reads dialed in with headphones it doesn't mean shit. There are a gazillion different headphones out there. Maybe the creator used those 2$ airplane headphones? (are they still 2 $/€?)
b) I was never really disappointed with any modeler bc I like my way of listening to music: with good headphones. My take from the text is: If you like your playback device you will probably like what comes out of it. If it's a good playback device (let's say a DT770) you will be even more happy. Now compare it to gramps that played a big Plexi through a Greenback 4x12 all his life coming from this to an Axe FX with headphones.
 
James Freeman said:
Gramps will have to lower his expectations by a cubic ton(e). :cool:
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I said it a thousand times (most of those times I was surely saying it in my head taling to myself...). If you feel your modeller sounds shitty answer those 2 1/2 questions:

a) Have you ever had your amp miced?

If yes:

b) Have you actually listened to how this amp sounded coming from the PA speakers or how it sounded on a recording?

Bonus:

c) Did you mic it yourself (as in: Did you physically pick the position (height, distance, angle) the mic has to the cab?)

There's absolutely NO SHAME in answering all of those questions with NO, but then be open to learn something new. There's a world beyond having a real amp and a real cab and the best thing: They can all coexist. Play what makes fun.

I feel like a BIG percentage of people buying any modeller is like "This doesn't sound AT ALL like my Plexi, AC30 or Twin. Here, I can A/B them. The amp here in my room sounds waaaay more lively and real!"

Every modeller company should put a leaflet inside the box reading "This is not your amp in the room. This is the simulation of a virtual pre amp going through virtual effects being powered by a virtual power amp and then being fed into a virtual cab/speaker, that most likely is just a specific EQ curve of a cab. No, it won't sound like the Plexi in your garage, that deafens you since 1982."
 
Piing said:
The astonishing thing is that there are so many dumb guitarist (and anti-modeler philosophers) not able to figure out that basic principle by themselves, and they keep crying at the forums "ma modeler doesn't sound like my roaring amp, wah wah wah" 😭😭😭
Click to expand...
I find that one of these scenarios is how it goes for a lot of those folks:
  1. "I tried a Boss Katana at a store and it didn't sound like my Marshall halfstack! All modelers suck!"
  2. "I tried a modeler, ran it into my shit tier headphones and it didn't sound good. Modelers suck!"
  3. "I tried a modeler into cheap PA speakers and it didn't sound like my Marshall halfstack in the room which was at 2x the volume! Modelers suck!"
  4. "I bought an Axe-Fx 3 and it didn't sound exactly like my favorite amp the moment I fired it up! Modelers suck! ...What do you mean I should read the manual and learn how to use it's 1000s of features?"
People are clearly unable to even compare different devices in a like-for-like manner.
 
laxu said:
I find that one of these scenarios is how it goes for a lot of those folks:
  1. "I tried a Boss Katana at a store and it didn't sound like my Marshall halfstack! All modelers suck!"
  2. "I tried a modeler, ran it into my shit tier headphones and it didn't sound good. Modelers suck!"
  3. "I tried a modeler into cheap PA speakers and it didn't sound like my Marshall halfstack in the room which was at 2x the volume! Modelers suck!"
  4. "I bought an Axe-Fx 3 and it didn't sound exactly like my favorite amp the moment I fired it up! Modelers suck! ...What do you mean I should read the manual and learn how to use it's 1000s of features?"
People are clearly unable to even compare different devices in a like-for-like manner.
Click to expand...
That sounds a Lot like Strat Talk Forum have you been there?

:ROFLMAO:
 
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