I think I was wrong about this amp...

[MatrixClaw]

So, I met a super nice guy this afternoon and traded my Deluxe Reverb to him. As much as I loved that amp, I just wasn't using it like I hoped I would and since I use my Iconic 40 as my main practice amp, since it can do basically everything well, I figured it was time to let it go. I ended up trading it for an amp that I remember playing when they came out and not liking at all, but figured I'd give it another chance:



I remember trying these when they came out and highly disliking it. They replaced the F series with these and the F series was a great, high gain, amp. The Express was definitely more suited to lower to mid gain and I wasn't interested.

First impressions: this thing is TINY. My Deluxe Reverb was a small combo, this thing is a suuuuper small combo.

Second impressions: this thing can definitely do metal by itself, which I don't remember it being able to before.

The cleans are just as good as the Fender, though way more versatile because it has more tone shaping. The crunch/blues settings sound awesome. The Burn can get surprisingly brutal. It's on the looser side, so it'd need a boost for anything more modern, but it has plenty of gain to do it and it definitely chugs. The reverb is as good, if not better than the Fender. The only thing I miss is the tremolo, but I can use a pedal for that.

I feel like old me just really got this one wrong. I would constantly bash on these amps, but I'm really digging this and think it might actually end up replacing my Iconic for daily use. Anyone else ever feel this way about an amp after trying it again?

 

[newholland]

not THAT amp. i tried it a coupla times and also didnt like it- but i came from 80s mesas.

HOWEVER. i have come to like the dirt channels on mesas, which i never did over thirty years- so the possibility exists i just did it wrong all them years! so im certain that carried over to the express, and i just dialed it wrong.

i never really liked marshalls in the 80s and 90s either, but theyre super fun as well. i dont want one but i appreciate them now way more, and man are plexis
a blast. same with old fenders.. i just figured they were old guy amps. nah.. i was just dumb and young.

 

[MatrixClaw]

not THAT amp. i tried it a coupla times and also didnt like it- but i came from 80s mesas.

HOWEVER. i have come to like the dirt channels on mesas, which i never did over thirty years- so the possibility exists i just did it wrong all them years! so im certain that carried over to the express, and i just dialed it wrong.

i never really liked marshalls in the 80s and 90s either, but theyre super fun as well. i dont want one but i appreciate them now way more, and man are plexis
a blast. same with old fenders.. i just figured they were old guy amps. nah.. i was just dumb and young.

My first Mesa was a Mark IV. I'm sure by the time this amp came out, I'd owned the 3, several Rectos, the F-50, 50 Cal, DC+5, etc. I remember HATING this thing. Like, I'm sure if you go on Ultimate Guitar, there's at least 100 posts by me saying how awful they are and Mesa really dropped the ball. Like... this thing is killer. I know my tastes have changed over the years, but I didn't realize it was this much

 

[Frodebro]

I had an Express 5:25 for a few weeks back in 2009. I returned it and bought a Mark V. Not because the Express sucked, but because it triggered insane GAS for the big boy.

 

[newholland]

My first Mesa was a Mark IV. I'm sure by the time this amp came out, I'd owned the 3, several Rectos, the F-50, 50 Cal, DC+5, etc. I remember HATING this thing. Like, I'm sure if you go on Ultimate Guitar, there's at least 100 posts by me saying how awful they are and Mesa really dropped the ball. Like... this thing is killer. I know my tastes have changed over the years, but I didn't realize it was this much

haha.. we clearly had exactly the same experience. i remember thinking it sounded absolutely mechanical and ridiculous and squirreling up my face in like 2006 or 7 like.. what the hell IS this mess now im curious!

 

[spawnofthesith]

I rocked an Express 5:50+ for a while. Awesome amp!! I liked it a lot. I thought it was waaaaay better than the Rectoverb 50 I traded for it. Clean channel is really nice on these amps. And yeah, definitely some solid metal tones as well. I probably would've liked it even better for that had I ever plugged it into a closed back cab

I always got the impression that at least with the +, some people would see the GEQ and expected a budget friendly Mark lite, but I got the most milage out of it by not treating it like/expecting it to be that. Has it's own cool thing going on

 

[mbenigni]

Is that the 12” combo or the 10” combo? Stock speaker?

I love the cleans out of mine (10”) but just kind of tolerate the mid to high gain. I’ve considered swapping out the speaker to tighten up the high gain a little bit, but I can never decide what with.

I don’t know whether decent high gain out of that tiny open back cabinet is even realistic, and I don’t want to spend money just to find I’ve compromised the clean sound either.

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

I got one like this with a ‘12 speaker.
Collecting dust atm, but not ready to sell it, it’s a nice amp.

It has been a great powered speaker running modelers/amps in the return. Size/weight/volume is at sweet spot.

The cleans are have a focus on high mids, for me a wee bit uncomfortable at home, but works great in a mix. (Typical mesa probably)
The gain channels never worked for me untill I attenuated the signal a bit in the loop, so I could open up the pots on the front a bit more. Seems to me the preamp needs to be able to spit out some signal before it does what it’s supposed to do.

 

[newholland]

yeah my issue with it was that i was thinking itd get looser for rock tones, and i just couldnt get it to a place where it felt like it was approximating sag, which i could with my calibers, and can with my mark ii, and the iv i knew. im sure its in there, but at guitar center its not like youre gonna light the back end up. i figure they probably made it a little stiffer as well to negotiate the little power section, which they DIDNT do with the studio .22.. which is probably why it was such a blast to play. definitely different critters.

 

[MatrixClaw]

I had an Express 5:25 for a few weeks back in 2009. I returned it and bought a Mark V. Not because the Express sucked, but because it triggered insane GAS for the big boy.

Makes sense. They were marketed as a lower cost Mark from what I remember. Probably another reason I hated it. Doesn't sound like a Mark to me, but it's cool.

haha.. we clearly had exactly the same experience. i remember thinking it sounded absolutely mechanical and ridiculous and squirreling up my face in like 2006 or 7 like.. what the hell IS this mess now im curious!

LOL yep! I remember being like super irrationally mad about how bad this thing sucked LMAO.

I rocked an Express 5:50+ for a while. Awesome amp!! I liked it a lot. I thought it was waaaaay better than the Rectoverb 50 I traded for it. Clean channel is really nice on these amps. And yeah, definitely some solid metal tones as well. I probably would've liked it even better for that had I ever plugged it into a closed back cab

I always got the impression that at least with the +, some people would see the GEQ and expected a budget friendly Mark lite, but I got the most milage out of it by not treating it like/expecting it to be that. Has it's own cool thing going on

Yep, I don't think it really sounds like a Mark much at all, except maybe on the clean side. I honestly don't think I've had this much fun with an amp in a long time. I was iffy on whether I should even get it since it wasn't the Plus and didn't have the GEQ, but I'm pleasantly surprised. I mostly wanted it for the clean and low to mid gain sounds, since my Iconic 40 is good there, but not great, and I usually like to noodle around with those tones when practicing during the week, but couldn't always turn my Deluxe Reverb up loud to get them. This will probably replace the Iconic in that regard.

Is that the 12” combo or the 10” combo? Stock speaker?

I love the cleans out of mine (10”) but just kind of tolerate the mid to high gain. I’ve considered swapping out the speaker to tighten up the high gain a little bit, but I can never decide what with.

I don’t know whether decent high gain out of that tiny open back cabinet is even realistic, and I don’t want to spend money just to find I’ve compromised the clean sound either.

12", stock speaker. I've never been a fan of anything smaller than a 12" for guitar and the 10" model definitely would've been a deal breaker for me.

I got one like this with a ‘12 speaker.
Collecting dust atm, but not ready to sell it, it’s a nice amp.

It has been a great powered speaker running modelers/amps in the return. Size/weight/volume is at sweet spot.

The cleans are have a focus on high mids, for me a wee bit uncomfortable at home, but works great in a mix. (Typical mesa probably)
The gain channels never worked for me untill I attenuated the signal a bit in the loop, so I could open up the pots on the front a bit more. Seems to me the preamp needs to be able to spit out some signal before it does what it’s supposed to do.

We A/B'd the cleans on this with my Deluxe Reverb when I picked it up and the way it was dialed in, I didn't find it sounded much different than the Fender. Usually, I'd scoop mids for cleans and boost the treble because I don't love that middy sound without gain and I like a little sparkle, but I'm actually boosting the mids and rolling the treble back significantly on this. I'll definitely agree, it needs some volume to get the goods, but it's not nearly as loud as I was expecting it to be (neither was my Deluxe Reverb this morning), so not a big deal to me. At one point, I had the volume dimed

yeah my issue with it was that i was thinking itd get looser for rock tones, and i just couldnt get it to a place where it felt like it was approximating sag, which i could with my calibers, and can with my mark ii, and the iv i knew. im sure its in there, but at guitar center its not like youre gonna light the back end up. i figure they probably made it a little stiffer as well to negotiate the little power section, which they DIDNT do with the studio .22.. which is probably why it was such a blast to play. definitely different critters.

Interesting. I actually find its sag to be the main reason I wouldn't recommend it as a metal amp. It can get heavy, but it's more of a harder rock sound on its own. It chugs, buts it's not the immediate bounce back you get from a more modern, tight amp.

 

[TSJMajesty]

Anyone else ever feel this way about an amp after trying it again?

Oh yeah. Both ways. Guitars too.

When I bought my Mesa Dual Rectifier Multi-Watt, I mainly bought it because it came with a stereo 4x12 cab, and that was what I was searching for. But it was such a great deal, so the amp came home too. But for many years it just didn't excite me much. Later on, I got to really experimenting with dialing it in, and it changed my mind completely.

Either my tastes changed, or I just hadn't given it a proper chance.

 

[la szum]

Cool... and Congrats.

I predict it will happen again to you with a Deluxe Reverb in a few years.

 

[MatrixClaw]

Oh yeah. Both ways. Guitars too.

When I bought my Mesa Dual Rectifier Multi-Watt, I mainly bought it because it came with a stereo 4x12 cab, and that was what I was searching for. But it was such a great deal, so the amp came home too. But for many years it just didn't excite me much. Later on, I got to really experimenting with dialing it in, and it changed my mind completely.

Either my tastes changed, or I just hadn't given it a proper chance.

I had similar feelings with the MW. I thought it was just okay the first time I had one, then I more recently picked up a Tremoverb again and wasn't overly excited about it. Tried a MW a bit later and really liked it. The Roadster is still my favorite, though!

Cool... and Congrats.

I predict it will happen again to you with a Deluxe Reverb in a few years.

Haha, you could be right, though one of the reasons I had originally decided to start shopping the DR around is after seeing the release of the new Tone King Imperial preamp pedal. The demos from NAMM look insane and it would take up way less space than an actual amp.

 

[MatrixClaw]

Plugged into the amp again today and still loving it. I'm actually surprised at how clean the power amp stays. I was hoping to crank up the master and keep the gain low to get some cool edge of breakup tones out of the clean channel and it definitely doesn't break up like the Deluxe Reverb did. No matter, it still sounds magical with a little preamp gain and lower volume, which the DR could not do.

 

[spawnofthesith]

Those clean channels work incredibly well with dirt pedals as well

 

[MatrixClaw]

Those clean channels work incredibly well with dirt pedals as well

Yeah, I keep forgetting that I got a Peper's Fire & Sword on Friday as well. Need to try it through the loop, plus out front!

 

[MatrixClaw]

Interesting developments A/Bing my Iconic 40 and Express 2:25 today. I was planning on selling the Iconic, if the Express favored well against it, and buying the new Fryette GPDI/IR but...

I expected the comparison to be pretty cut and dry: the Iconic would be better at high gain, the Express would be better everywhere else. I was wrong... kinda.

The Express is a DARK amp in comparison. I just couldn't get anywhere close to the sparkle that the Iconic has on its clean/crunch settings and on high gain, the Express sounds like it has a blanket over it, even when the lows are at 10 and the treble is maxed. I didn't like it in any setting, from cleans to edge of breakup to blues, crunch and modern metal. Next to the Iconic, it sounded weak and muddy.

The only area the Express won was on its reverb. The Iconic's reverb is weird and warbly, it doesn't ramp in like the Express does, it just gets louder. The reverb on the Express is usable when dimed, the Iconic's is usable till like 3/10.

That said, I was curious if maybe the speaker was the issue, so I plugged the Express into the WGS ET65 I have in the Iconic and it definitely sounded much clearer. Still dark, but not boomy and just overwhelmingly filled with low frequencies. I felt like a brighter speaker like a V30 or maybe a Greenback would've worked nicely, though I'm skeptical how it'd affect the lower gain tones. I'd like to try it with the V-Type in my PRS cab. I couldn't A/B the amps at this point to compare them though - the Iconic did sound noticably worse plugged into the Express's speaker, though.

However, the interesting development comes when I listened back to the quick cell phone recordings I made in the room while testing them. There was no comparison. The Express destroyed the Iconic. The brightness of the Iconic that I loved in the room, translated to a shrill ice-picky high end and lack of weight in the low end. The Express sounded full and lush with a much more even tonal range.

I recorded it with my phone on the floor pointed towards the middle of both of them. Wondering if the cabs are just super directional and simply A/Bing them sitting in front of them isn't going to cut it. Now I need to properly mic both and try again!

 

[newholland]

i dunno man- treble cut in a band setting is super important to shove cymbals aside and stand forward. i think its why marshalls never lose their allure- theyre weapons for that. the express is probably best pretty loud, like most mesas, and reedier than youd play it just jamming around the house. if it were me (though its not), id probably throw something like a cl80 (NOT a c90 or v30) or a g12h30 anni in the combo, and see where it went to max treble cut. both are solid for clean or dirty tones- less so for REALLY high gain with the h30 for long periods of time really loud... but if youre not banding with it... rock what yer happy with! it still sounds like you dig it stock!

 

[MatrixClaw]

i dunno man- treble cut in a band setting is super important to shove cymbals aside and stand forward. i think its why marshalls never lose their allure- theyre weapons for that. the express is probably best pretty loud, like most mesas, and reedier than youd play it just jamming around the house. if it were me (though its not), id probably throw something like a cl80 (NOT a c90 or v30) or a g12h30 anni in the combo, and see where it went to max treble cut. both are solid for clean or dirty tones- less so for REALLY high gain with the h30 for long periods of time really loud... but if youre not banding with it... rock what yer happy with! it still sounds like you dig it stock!

That's totally fair. I had both about halfway up, so they definitely weren't quiet haha! I have an Eminence Wizard, which I think is based on the G12H-30. I didn't think about that one but it might be a good match, might have to try it out. In the room, the Iconic crushed the Express, like no competition whatsoever, but those recordings are definitely making me second-guess myself because it was the complete opposite there.

 

[newholland]

That's totally fair. I had both about halfway up, so they definitely weren't quiet haha! I have an Eminence Wizard, which I think is based on the G12H-30. I didn't think about that one but it might be a good match, might have to try it out. In the room, the Iconic crushed the Express, like no competition whatsoever, but those recordings are definitely making me second-guess myself because it was the complete opposite there.

only consolation i can give though is phone mics are just weird, and compress is bizarro ways based on frequency- id be more inclined to trust your ears!

but definitely bust out a mic of choice and do em up right. i find that way LESS indicative of the soumd of an amp, tbh, cause close mics pose their own weirdness and never sound much like an amp! i WOULD try that wizard though. i had amazing luck with my old .22 and the h30... that lil box sounded way bigger than it had any right to!

report back, soldier. you have your marching orders!