HILS Headless on the cheap. Seems too good to be true

Ho
likitlikeyoulikeit said:
@Eagle when in a conversation with anyone about guitars....

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Fight the good fight sir, I'm happy..... continue with your cloudy English ways!!!😝


Also, in regards to your hardness claims, I was once a Field Service Engineer for a very reputable materials testing lab/company.

Hardness and tensile have been a specialty of mine.

I repaired, maintained and verified many types of hardness testers, including brinell, micro hardness, and Rockwell. Hardness isn't necessarily the best measure for this application. Just a number. Of which..... anything over 60 Rockwell is more than sufficient.

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Hosco Claim HV 300 hardness for SS and Jescar around the same but I dress SS wire during refrets and the differences between this and what is typically on budget instruments as SS is very noticeable.
 
Eagle said:
Ho

Hosco Claim HV 300 hardness for SS and Jescar around the same but I dress SS wire during refrets and the differences between this and what is typically on budget instruments as SS is very noticeable.
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That's literally hardness overkill...if you are using the Vickers....which is micro hardness ...which is a bit tedious for fretwire....but that's probably just because of the sample/test size....surface area matters.
300 vickers is over 100 Rockwell ...that's insane.....like I said, overkill. Just like you know guitars, I know hardness and tensile testing. I used to work on machines valued at over 1 million US ...all the time. Just to give some background and maybe a little credibility.

I worked in a standards lab.....used to rebuild wheatstone bridges and load cells too.... seriously.

SS frets don't need to be the hardest on any scale to be quality, they aren't necessarily related.

Also, hardness doesn't measure brittleness.....which is another factor to consider.

Just some insight from someone whom has/had to memorize ASTM guidelines.

P S. For those that don't know..... diamond tipped testing tips are used ...with specific standard dimensions ....then a load is applied for a specific time....along the travel....and then the diameter is measured to determine hardness....no matter the scale, except birnell which uses balls of a specific diameter to make its impression. Also different load types are used depending on the known material to be tested.

 
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likitlikeyoulikeit said:
That's literally hardness overkill...if you are using the Vickers....which is micro hardness ...which is a bit tedious for fretwire....but that's probably just because of the sample/test size....surface area matters.
300 vickers is over 100 Rockwell ...that's insane.....like I said, overkill. Just like you know guitars, I know hardness and tensile testing. I used to work on machines valued at over 1 million US ...all the time. Just to give some background and maybe a little credibility.

I worked in a standards lab.....used to rebuild wheatstone bridges and load cells too.... seriously.

SS frets don't need to be the hardest on any scale to be quality, they aren't necessarily related.

Also, hardness doesn't measure brittleness.....which is another factor to consider.

Just some insight from someone whom has/had to memorize ASTM guidelines.

P S. For those that don't know..... diamond tipped testing tips are used ...with specific standard dimensions ....then a load is applied for a specific time....along the travel....and then the diameter is measured to determine hardness....no matter the scale, except birnell which uses balls of a specific diameter to make its impression. Also different load types are used depending on the known material to be tested.

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A common problem is pitting and it happens on some SS frets . Parker frets are way harder than even these. Tools literally skid off these. Hosco claims their SS is only twice as hard at their nickel.
 
Eagle said:
A common problem is pitting and it happens on some SS frets . Parker frets are way harder than even these. Tools literally skid off these. Hosco claims their SS is only twice as hard at their nickel.
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Kind of my point. At 500 dollars I'm not expecting the frets to last a lifetime. Unless you are using very expensive diamond tools....it won't do anything.....so why would strings do any more damage. I just think on a value instrument, the argument becomes pointless.... especially knowing what I know from first hand, verifiable data and experience.
 
likitlikeyoulikeit said:
Kind of my point. At 500 dollars I'm not expecting the frets to last a lifetime. Unless you are using very expensive diamond tools....it won't do anything.....so why would strings do any more damage. I just think on a value instrument, the argument becomes pointless.... especially knowing what I know from first hand, verifiable data and experience.
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I’m not interested in owning guitars that are just a PiTA down the line even if they are cheap. In the real world pitted frets feel like shit and it’s worse on soft SS than nickel because the strings can actually smooth out the nickel but not the SS. Nickel frets just wear but soft SS gets gritty and stays that way.
 
Eagle said:
I’m not interested in owning guitars that are just a PiTA down the line even if they are cheap. In the real world pitted frets feel like shit and it’s worse on soft SS than nickel because the strings can actually smooth out the nickel but not the SS. Nickel frets just wear but soft SS gets gritty and stays that way.
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I feel sometimes, that when we are talking you refuse to hear/see anything I have typed/said.

I feel like this is always a one sided convo where only your pov matters.....I'm saying that isn't so.....but it's ok.

We can just quit with this thread hijack. I appreciate you and your experience. I just don't feel it reciprocated, and that is a shame.

Maybe one day we can reach a happy neutral territory, full of mutual respect.
 
likitlikeyoulikeit said:
I feel sometimes, that when we are talking you refuse to hear/see anything I have typed/said.

I feel like this is always a one sided convo where only your pov matters.....I'm saying that isn't so.....but it's ok.

We can just quit with this thread hijack. I appreciate you and your experience. I just don't feel it reciprocated, and that is a shame.

Maybe one day we can reach a happy neutral territory, full of mutual respect.
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I was trying to give you real world experience with softer SS I appreciate your information and can’t comment on it because I don’t have experience with the scale . We should just agree to disagree. I respect your input and information.
 
Jynx said:
Wish I didn't bump this thread now. :rofl
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Thoughts Prayers GIF by Alayna Joy
 
I asked HILS USA about the quality and hardness of their stainless steel. This was their response:

"I don’t know the exact grade but I have done some fret leveling on them and it’s a pain in the a&& so I know the material is quite hard!"

I'm sure it's not S-grade, but sounds like they're probably not cheaping out either.
 
likitlikeyoulikeit said:
I'm not gonna be an ass like anyone else that argues with you.

Assuming anything is folly, and making declarative statements without evidence is false...period.

It's cool, you have plenty of experience, which I appreciate and respect....but this action is indefensible. I expect better from you.

If one is to make such statements, I expect evidence and direct experience with the guitar in question, from the manufacturer in question.
Which isn't Chinese, by the way.

Hex guitars is the parent company, which is SK. Guitars are made in Indonesia.

What one doesn't need is an experienced and trusted tech and wood worker, shitting all over their knowingly cheap equipment....as has been pointed out on numerous occasions, you have terrible timing and bed side manner.

Someone enjoys a new guitar, here comes eagle with some fresh skat to drop on it ....come on dude....be better.

Sometimes it's better to just let someone enjoy their thing ....just like we allow you to enjoy your thing, which is becoming a bit tiresome. Not much use for this type of behavior, imo.

Not meant to be an ass ..just a friendly observation.😉
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perfect reply
 
Eagle said:
I totally get it but I also guarantee you that it will be something similar but not mahogany. If something isn’t true I usually call it out . I like cheap as much as anyone but eyes wide open. I certainly don’t mean anything else. I call out most marketing, Suhr and Gibson custom shop both fit the Korean OEM Floyd FFS . I just say as it is . I get it that tack is something I lack in writing. I did say it seems good value . Anyway sorry if I have offended anyone, never my intention.
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actually it is mahogany and I got it from the owner who is very reputable not only in guitars but other business ventures.
 
All to end the debate on Hils next body. It is specifically African Mahogany also called Khaya. It is 50 percent harder than genuine mahogany. You can get good and not great grades of it but it is called mahogany. It is an alternative to American Mahogany that is growing in popularity. Luthiers report African Mahogany and Honduran Mahogany both shine in mid range frequencies when used in acoustics. African Mahogany has been used in various guitars for over 100 years. None of the preceeding is my opinion and is based on published literature by independent sources on several on line sites.
 
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