Helix Stadium wishlist

[Orvillain]

Wow. Thanks for explaining.
And i understand that with most pedals, it is what it is. But for modelers surely they’d be able to “program” a delay to work specific ways? And have additional parameters to control how decay/repeats pan out.

They could expose the compander settings, and the envelope follower settings. But very easy to make stuff sound bad if you get the parameters wrong. Fractal do reveal some compander parameters though.

One way of tracking the "shape" of an audio signal is to use two envelope followers - one fast, and one slow - to create a novelty envelope for the signal. This then gives you something to 'key off' - like, if the novelty is rising, decrease the gain stage, if the novelty is falling, increase the gain stage.

 

[Sascha Franck]

That's pretty much what a compander is doing. You'd have two envelope followers tracking the pre and post signals, and you'd use that to drive a compressor or an expander.

Yeah. but I'm pretty sure that due to the permanent "retriggering" if simply wouldn't work the same as a "burned" in different delay tap slope.

 

[Orvillain]

Yeah. but I'm pretty sure that due to the permanent "retriggering" if simply wouldn't work the same as a "burned" in different delay tap slope.

There is no retriggering with an envelope follower. At least not in this context. It just monitors and constantly measures a realtime signal.

We're getting a bit off topic now. Happy to take this to the Orvillain DSP thread!

 

[Sascha Franck]

There is no retriggering with an envelope follower. At least not in this context. It just monitors and constantly measures a realtime signal.

I kinda know. Yet, when you slap a multitude of signals (the delay taps) into it, it might become a difficult job for the envelope follower.
Anyhow, as much as I have no real idea about the secrets behind, I don't know of any delay that does allow control over the feedback taps' slope or could be modified with other plugins to allow for that. The only thing in my arsenal allowing for detailed "feedback" (which it actually isn't exactly) slope control would be Logic's Space Designer, which is merely a whole bunch of individual delays.
And fwiw, I actually think that this would make up for a more flexible unit anyway - as you could come up with some wild delay feedback curves.

We're getting a bit off topic now. Happy to take this to the Orvillain DSP thread!

Maybe - but perhaps some L6 folks find inspiration here.

 

[Rewolf]

Another user of Midi Guitar 2 on iPad. Works very well for feeding into a Hammond emulator. Strum acoustic guitar with Hammond sustaining underneath or reasonably quick and accurate lead lines (with an iPad Pro). USB 7 sends the guitar out and the return sound comes back on USB 5+6 before processing through Helix based rotary and other effects.

For expressive instruments such as Flute, Violin, Viola or Sax, I use GeoShred with the SWAM instruments returning on USB 3+4 on the same iPad. I have been playing two handed for Violin + Viola using 2 iPads recently for some songs. I have to use USB-C to headphone cables to FX Return 1+2 for the second iPad and link the IPads using Bluetooth MIDI for patch changes.

It would be great if everything could just use USB-C cables that also provide power to the iPads, which the Expand D10 might support?

A MIDI modulation source linked to the tempo of the song or playing dynamics would be really useful if built in polyphonic guitar to MIDI isn’t practical (or popular enough). I know that I am an edge case!

 

[JiveTurkey]

Serious suggestion list:

1. Oversample the living crap out of it. No disembodied distortion.
2. Make effects more lush sounding. AKA take a turn for the better towards richer sounding delays, verbs and modulations.
3. Get someone who likes Marshalls and OG high gainers and step away from the Fender-style combo amp addiction.
4. If you're being generous; add some polyphonic synth stuff.

I can't think of a thing in any other area that would trip my trigger.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Fwiw, just a few out of the gazillions of things I could grab from my memory, everything strictly related to usability:

- Block presets. No need to elaborate.

- I know it's a dream (and possibly pretty hard to tackle), but still: "grouped blocks" presets. Select, say, a dirt block, an amp and a cab and save the entire group as a sub-preset.

- Exchanging amp and amp&cab blocks should keep the amp settings intact.

- The cab in an amp&cab block should be bypass-able.

- The cab in an amp&cab block should be replaceable by an IR.

- An option to cycle through a bunch of blocks (that would likely sit in a split path) and automatically activate them. Why? Because that's how I did it in my loop switcher setups along with the MS-50. I had 3-4 modulations on it that I could then cycle through. The patch that had the MS-50 on it obviously stayed the same but I was able to have different modulations on that patch. With the current lineup you'd have to have a free switch for each block, in my setup I only needed one. Alternatively, let me cycle through a group of the mentioned "grouped blocks" presets.
And yes, I know that this wish likely won't gain much popularity, but it's pretty much what many people do on their oopswitcher setups.

- The volume parameters in each block should have a curve parameter, just as the current volume block. This could save you from having to use an extra volume block (especially important for the upcoming Stomp successor) for volume pedal actions.

 

[mikah912]

Serious suggestion list:

1. Oversample the living crap out of it. No disembodied distortion.
2. Make effects more lush sounding. AKA take a turn for the better towards richer sounding delays, verbs and modulations.
3. Get someone who likes Marshalls and OG high gainers and step away from the Fender-style combo amp addiction.
4. If you're being generous; add some polyphonic synth stuff.

I can't think of a thing in any other area that would trip my trigger.

I'm sure they've gotten more than enough feedback to repeat #1 like a mantra at this point. #2 is debatable, but they took two separate stabs at addressing it in the HX generation, and I fully expect they'll do even more in the development of this device. It's also intriguing - but nothing more than that until we get some real details - that they're alluding to Proxy being able to clone effects.

I feel good about #3 given the Bogner Ecstasy and 5153 in the last update. Also happy that the Revv made it in the initial outlay of Angoura amps. Hopefully, the PRS Archon and 5153 will either be in there or not too far behind. I expect Proxy to do a lot of the heavy lifting here in the first year or so.

I also feel good about crazy effects and polyphonic synth stuff being on tap with DI as the product manager. He's one of us.

Don't have much of a personal wishlist, really, other than hoping that the (eventual?) Angoura versions of the Mark IV, Dual Rectifier, Invective, Shiva and Archon are fully featured with way more selectable channels/switches than Helix currently offers. I think the current Dynamic reverbs are already lush and musical.

Knowing that the Revv and Bogner Ecstasy are confirmed Angoura launch amps covers A LOT of what I do tonally. Those are the bedrock of my current main Helix patches.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I'm sure they've gotten more than enough feedback to repeat #1 like a mantra at this point. #2 is debatable, but they took two separate stabs at addressing it in the HX generation, and I fully expect they'll do even more in the development of this device. It's also intriguing - but nothing more than that until we get some real details - that they're alluding to Proxy being able to clone effects.

I feel good about #3 given the Bogner Ecstasy and 5153 in the last update. Also happy that the Revv made it in the initial outlay of Angoura amps. Hopefully, the PRS Archon and 5153 will either be in there or not too far behind. I expect Proxy to do a lot of the heavy lifting here in the first year or so.

I also feel good about crazy effects and polyphonic synth stuff being on tap with DI as the product manager. He's one of us.

Don't have much of a personal wishlist, really, other than hoping that the (eventual?) Angoura versions of the Mark IV, Dual Rectifier, Invective, Shiva and Archon are fully featured with way more selectable channels/switches than Helix currently offers. I think the current Dynamic reverbs are already lush and musical.

Knowing that the Revv and Bogner Ecstasy are confirmed Angoura launch amps covers A LOT of what I do tonally. Those are the bedrock of my current main Helix patches.

Ehhh we've always had different ears on this. Last time I tried their modeling was probably year and some change ago. Maybe 2? I think I tried the Metallurgy thing for about 15 minutes but wasn't huge fan of it. There were some good results on the FX end but not near as lush as I would like. The old cliche is "Helix is for effects pedal people and FAS is for rack lovers" and there is truth to that imo. Could be the difference in mix laws; could be the difference in just fullness of the effects in question. FAS fx are like a hot fudge syrup on top whereas the HX stuff is like hardened chocolate shell Both are good but a different vibe to each.

 

[mikah912]

Ehhh we've always had different ears on this. Last time I tried their modeling was probably year and some change ago. Maybe 2? I think I tried the Metallurgy thing for about 15 minutes but wasn't huge fan of it. There were some good results on the FX end but not near as lush as I would like. The old cliche is "Helix is for effects pedal people and FAS is for rack lovers" and there is truth to that imo. Could be the difference in mix laws; could be the difference in just fullness of the effects in question. FAS fx are like a hot fudge syrup on top whereas the HX stuff is like hardened chocolate shell Both are good but a different vibe to each.

All good, JT. There's never any point in trying to argue for people to hear things differently than they already do. I know Line 6 certainly considers Fractal and Neural DSP when they're doing internal listening tests/comparisons. They also don't dismiss out of hand when people constantly cite something...like the JCM800 model....or the reverbs....or squirrels...or whatever.

I'm probably a little more comfortable and satisfied moving interchangeably between the Fractal and Line 6 worlds than most. FM9 has been my main out rig for a while now (while Native is the centerpiece of my recording template), and really only the prospect of something as extensive and well-thought-out as Stadium would displace that.

 

[GTR37]

My stupid dumb one i absolutely hate that the graphic of the Bogner / 5153 are red and blue grill cloths to depict channel looks cartoonish
I would much prefer the accurate look of the amp with the wheat grill
And have the amp controls be blue for Bogner blue
Blue for 5153
Red on the red channels
Purple on the Revv purple
I know small small thing but aesthetically looks
lower budget

Edit I should add I am talking about HX edit I have not seen Stadium but I suspect the same

 

[GTR37]

Serious suggestion list:

1. Oversample the living crap out of it. No disembodied distortion.
2. Make effects more lush sounding. AKA take a turn for the better towards richer sounding delays, verbs and modulations.
3. Get someone who likes Marshalls and OG high gainers and step away from the Fender-style combo amp addiction.
4. If you're being generous; add some polyphonic synth stuff.

I can't think of a thing in any other area that would trip my trigger.

They have already picked the first 16 but yes hopefully not 6 Fenders
Although technically the dripman could be one of the bass models like HX
Many have begged for reworks on the Recto and MK4 so I would imagine one of those is there

 

[Los-D]

Modded Marshall amps (start with the Cameron CCV), MIAB pedals (for shits and giggles), and low latency (BOSS level?).

Also, a potential stadium stomp might just be the FM0 we never got…

 

[GTR37]

Ehhh we've always had different ears on this. Last time I tried their modeling was probably year and some change ago. Maybe 2? I think I tried the Metallurgy thing for about 15 minutes but wasn't huge fan of it. There were some good results on the FX end but not near as lush as I would like. The old cliche is "Helix is for effects pedal people and FAS is for rack lovers" and there is truth to that imo. Could be the difference in mix laws; could be the difference in just fullness of the effects in question. FAS fx are like a hot fudge syrup on top whereas the HX stuff is like hardened chocolate shell Both are good but a different vibe to each.

Maybe they will be the first to add your Badlander

 

[JiveTurkey]

Maybe they will be the first to add your Badlander

Looking forward to their capture experience quite a bit actually!

 

[mikah912]

Modded Marshall amps (start with the Cameron CCV), MIAB pedals (for shits and giggles), and low latency (BOSS level?).

Also, a potential stadium stomp might just be the FM0 we never got…

If they add modded Marshalls, please don't just follow Fractal models. So many unique other options (new modded 1959 from Marshall, Friedman Jose, Bogner Snorkler, 3rd Power Dragon, Headfirst Alta) they could add.

 

[GTR37]

If they add modded Marshalls, please don't just follow Fractal models. So many unique other options (new modded 1959 from Marshall, Friedman Jose, Bogner Snorkler, 3rd Power Dragon, Headfirst Alta) they could add.

Naylor SuperDrive 60

 

[EOengineer]

What I want more than anything is a compact power amp with digital Hx connectivity (no additional conversion/latency) that allows me to save impedance curves and power amp characteristics per preset. Bonus points if I can choose a specific amp’s power section as a starting point and adjust negative feedback, sag, bias, tube type, etc.

Perhaps even give me two different speaker outs that I can choose between.

It should be small, think Amp1, not matrix.

Serious suggestion list:

1. Oversample the living crap out of it. No disembodied distortion.
2. Make effects more lush sounding. AKA take a turn for the better towards richer sounding delays, verbs and modulations.
3. Get someone who likes Marshalls and OG high gainers and step away from the Fender-style combo amp addiction.
4. If you're being generous; add some polyphonic synth stuff.

I can't think of a thing in any other area that would trip my trigger.

The issue with the effects is one I’ve felt strongly enough that it actually pushed me out the door back to my pedalboard, which has escalated my migration out of the Hx ecosystem.

I’m using a potent cocktail of Klon, Dejavibe, Phase 90, MXR-117, CE-1, re-202…lots of thick lumpy syrupy layered effects and it just feels dead in Helix, while the whole thing breathes on my pedalboard. The effects almost become their own instrument. I can’t put my finger on it and it drives me nuts.

I actually find some of the older M series modulations to be more musical than Helix. I don’t understand what happened with modulations in Helix.

Also huge agree on getting someone in there who loves Marshall’s and Mesa’s, as there have been repeated and significant missteps there, though I think they’ve figured out the Marshall thing. Ben very humbly addressed that in one of the post release interviews.

 

[Chocol8]

What I want more than anything is a compact power amp with digital Hx connectivity (no additional conversion/latency) that allows me to save impedance curves and power amp characteristics per preset. Bonus points if I can choose a specific amp’s power section as a starting point and adjust negative feedback, sag, bias, tube type, etc.

None of that needs to be done in the power amp. If you assume a modern high damping factor power amp that is extremely linear, it can all be done in the digital model.

The problem today is they are not fully modeling all of the power amp to speaker interaction, the cheap small and lightweight power amps are OK but not always great, and the "FRFR" speaker systems are neither FR nor FR.

 

[EOengineer]

None of that needs to be done in the power amp. If you assume a modern high damping factor power amp that is extremely linear, it can all be done in the digital model.

The problem today is they are not fully modeling all of the power amp to speaker interaction, the cheap small and lightweight power amps are OK but not always great, and the ""FRFR"" speaker systems are neither FR nor FR.

So I guess more generally, I’d prefer if the Hx ecosystem had an officially sanctioned power amp, preferably something small but if it had to be a 1u rack I’d probably still go for it.