Guess this belongs here - UAFX Lion and Ruby

[KingsXJJ]

I have an axe FX, 2203 from 1977, 2204 from 1979 and have owned several others from the late 70’s/early 80’s. I don’t think it’s a particularly hard amp to model, so long as the original amp is in good nick.

View attachment 25008

SW ain’t a thing here but i’ll keep an eye out

Nice!

 

[Whizzinby]

I think the UA stuff sounds awesome on demos, and I generally like their curated approach. The lack of midi is beyond weird, but a lot of the amps they’ve modeled aren’t really channel switchers though. Most of them are for set and forget type amps that players may boost or hit with a dirt pedal at most. Still an odd omission though.

 

[la szum]

I have an axe FX, 2203 from 1977, 2204 from 1979 and have owned several others from the late 70’s/early 80’s. I don’t think it’s a particularly hard amp to model, so long as the original amp is in good nick.

View attachment 25008

SW ain’t a thing here but i’ll keep an eye out

Was talkin' bout Marshalls with a guy on the Internet the other day.....

 

[KingsXJJ]

Was talkin' bout Marshalls with a guy on the Internet the other day.....

No lo comprende !

 

[KingsXJJ]

I think the UA stuff sounds awesome on demos, and I generally like their curated approach. The lack of midi is beyond weird, but a lot of the amps they’ve modeled aren’t really channel switchers though. Most of them are for set and forget type amps that players may boost or hit with a dirt pedal at most. Still an odd omission though.

I consider their approach to be excellence with simplicity. Got a tone you are looking for? Here’s our best effort. Boiled down to the basics with a bit of flexibility. Full blown modeler? No. I’d really love to see them expand their line of amp pedals or go all out in a multi-amp offering that runs the gamut. Get the amp number up on it to 12 or 15? I’m in. Various boosts too.

 

[laxu]

I consider their approach to be excellence with simplicity. Got a tone you are looking for? Here’s our best effort. Boiled down to the basics with a bit of flexibility.

I consider it "trying too hard to make a digital version that behaves exactly like the original". There is nothing good about the Ruby EQ working only in the Brilliant channel mode for example. Why not just "turn these knob to min/max/halfway for authentic behavior, or something else to do things the real amp can't"?

To me digital's benefit is the ability to be authentic or do things that are impossible or hard to do with real circuits. Doesn't mean they need Fractal like tweakability, but more like Strymon's "hey, want to turn this Fender Blackface model into a Tweed? Turn up the mids knob!" stuff.

UA is kind of the worst things about analog pedals, but applied to digital. They could have corrected all this after their Golden/Astra/Starlight pedals, then released V2 versions of those. But instead they doubled down on the same deficiencies.

 

[KingsXJJ]

I consider it "trying too hard to make a digital version that behaves exactly like the original". There is nothing good about the Ruby EQ working only in the Brilliant channel mode for example. Why not just "turn these knob to min/max/halfway for authentic behavior, or something else to do things the real amp can't"?

To me digital's benefit is the ability to be authentic or do things that are impossible or hard to do with real circuits. Doesn't mean they need Fractal like tweakability, but more like Strymon's "hey, want to turn this Fender Blackface model into a Tweed? Turn up the mids knob!" stuff.

UA is kind of the worst things about analog pedals, but applied to digital. They could have corrected all this after their Golden/Astra/Starlight pedals, then released V2 versions of those. But instead they doubled down on the same deficiencies.

Sounds like you have your reasons not to use their products. I have two reasons to use the few I do. They’re on either side of my head. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Enchilada Jones]

I consider it "trying too hard to make a digital version that behaves exactly like the original". There is nothing good about the Ruby EQ working only in the Brilliant channel mode for example. Why not just "turn these knob to min/max/halfway for authentic behavior, or something else to do things the real amp can't"?

To me digital's benefit is the ability to be authentic or do things that are impossible or hard to do with real circuits. Doesn't mean they need Fractal like tweakability, but more like Strymon's "hey, want to turn this Fender Blackface model into a Tweed? Turn up the mids knob!" stuff.

UA is kind of the worst things about analog pedals, but applied to digital. They could have corrected all this after their Golden/Astra/Starlight pedals, then released V2 versions of those. But instead they doubled down on the same deficiencies.

Yea, my thought on the flawed decision to impose a lack of midi control is, the pedal has presets the original amps did not.
The pedal has more than one model of amp. The original was obviously only one model.
So adding midi isn’t compromising some self imposed purity standard.
It is a decision based simply on a budget consideration or for marketing multiple pedals.
So it comes off as manipulative. It is handicapping your product for self interest not for staying true to the original since you already strayed from those boundaries in the design many times.

 

[KingsXJJ]

Yea, my thought on the flawed decision to impose a lack of midi control is, the pedal has presets the original amps did not.
The pedal has more than one model of amp. The original was obviously only one model.
So adding midi isn’t compromising some self imposed purity standard.
It is a decision based simply on a budget consideration or for marketing multiple pedals.
So it comes off as manipulative. It is handicapping your product for self interest not for staying true to the original since you already strayed from those boundaries in the design many times.

Dang it. Now I have to sell all of my gear that doesn’t have midi. I feel so dirty and used. I’m worth more than that.

 

[Enchilada Jones]

Dang it. Now I have to sell all of my gear that doesn’t have midi. I feel so dirty and used. I’m worth more than that.

Well that would be a bit of an over reaction wouldn’t it?

I had all four of the UA amp sim pedals ( still have Lion and Dream) and the Stomp for extra cabs etc. I even bought the Morningstar ML10 midi looper pedal so I could fix the problem and I realized I was creating a modular version of the AxeFx FM9….only bigger…more cumbersome work flow….and even completed it would still be woefully inadequate by comparison. So I stopped and embraced reality.

I kept Lion and Dream for the time being and use them as ‘amps’ for DI purposes. Problem solved.
I never felt used. Just a little incredulous when thinking about UA’s decision to not put midi into the pedal. It’s probably only $10 or less to do it.

There are a lot of people who would have bought them if they had midi because then they would be up to the task of replacing their real amp to go with their existing pedalboards. I don’t play in a band anymore so I don’t need the pedals to be all they can be. I can afford them as a quirky luxury item but a lot of younger players are in a band and can’t afford to use something that is half assed even if the one half sounds amazing. So they put something like a Strymon Iridium on their board instead and audience loves those guys just the same.
Who knows, maybe UA is into the vanity projects as much as making money. If so they are doing just fine, the pedals are sweet and sound really good.

 

[Countryclarke]

Sounds like you have your reasons not to use their products. I have two reasons to use the few I do. They’re on either side of my head. Thanks for your thoughts.

They don’t even sound that great imo.
I bought the Golden, Starlight, Dream 65 and Woodrow.
The reason I got rid of them was also on either side of my head.

 

[KingsXJJ]

Well that would be a bit of an over reaction wouldn’t it?

I had all four of the UA amp sim pedals ( still have Lion and Dream) and the Stomp for extra cabs etc. I even bought the Morningstar ML10 midi looper pedal so I could fix the problem and I realized I was creating a modular version of the AxeFx FM9….only bigger…more cumbersome work flow….and even completed it would still be woefully inadequate by comparison. So I stopped and embraced reality.

I kept Lion and Dream for the time being and use them as ‘amps’ for DI purposes. Problem solved.
I never felt used. Just a little incredulous when thinking about UA’s decision to not put midi into the pedal. It’s probably only $10 or less to do it.

There are a lot of people who would have bought them if they had midi because then they would be up to the task of replacing their real amp to go with their existing pedalboards. I don’t play in a band anymore so I don’t need the pedals to be all they can be. I can afford them as a quirky luxury item but a lot of younger players are in a band and can’t afford to use something that is half assed even if the one half sounds amazing. So they put something like a Strymon Iridium on their board instead and audience loves those guys just the same.
Who knows, maybe UA is into the vanity projects as much as making money. If so they are doing just fine, the pedals are sweet and sound really good.

Yes, it would be an over reaction. Based on some need to demand exactly what I want rather than on reality and failing to consider not all things meet all needs.

I appreciate your measured response. It was informative as well.

 

[KingsXJJ]

They don’t even sound that great imo.
I bought the Golden, Starlight, Dream 65 and Woodrow.
The reason I got rid of them was also on either side of my head.

I haven’t tried any of those so I can’t speak to them at all.

I have the Lion and Ruby. My take is they both each sound better than the Iridium equivalents. I really wanted to love the Iridium. It’s a beautiful piece of gear. Three things essentially kept it not for me. I bought it three times each thinking I just needed to adapt. 1) Not enough gain. A built in booster would really help and seems like a secondary function that could be added via firmware. 2) A TRS effects loop like the NUX Amp Academy. 3) Proper grounding for the headphone jack.

Yes, I knew the UAFX units did not have #2 or #3 going in. Call me a hypocrite if you wish.

I know it works beautifully for others. It is gorgeous in form factor/control panel.

Regarding my limited use of the UAFX Pedals, the Lion is definitely a keeper. I’m a Plexi Nerd ( @Whizzinby heh) and this thing is rich. Ruby I am not certain of. I appreciate Vox amps and love Brian May’s and Edge’s work with them a great deal. The Ruby does wonderful high gain Vox tones but if I ‘m going for Jangle it doesn’t deliver as easily. Perhaps it is my settings, I’ll give it another go and see. I tried a cheap $25 pedal that really nails that stuff and at $349 the Ruby should deliver.

 

[KingsXJJ]

They don’t even sound that great imo.
I bought the Golden, Starlight, Dream 65 and Woodrow.
The reason I got rid of them was also on either side of my head.

Every one should trust those things!

 

[Countryclarke]

I haven’t tried any of those so I can’t speak to them at all.

I have the Lion and Ruby. My take is they both each sound better than the Iridium equivalents. I really wanted to love the Iridium. It’s a beautiful piece of gear. Three things essentially kept it not for me. I bought it three times each thinking I just needed to adapt. 1) Not enough gain. A built in booster would really help and seems like a secondary function that could be added via firmware. 2) A TRS effects loop like the NUX Amp Academy. 3) Proper pounding for the headphone jack.

Yes, I knew the UAFX units did not have #2 or #3 going in. Call me a hypocrite if you wish.

I know it works beautifully for others. It is gorgeous in form factor/control panel.

Regarding my limited use of the UAFX Pedals, the Lion is definitely a keeper. I’m a Plexi Nerd ( @Whizzinby heh) and this thing is rich. Ruby I am not certain of. I appreciate Vox amps and love Brian May’s and Edge’s work with them a great deal. The Ruby does wonderful high gain Vox tones but if I ‘m going for Jangle it doesn’t deliver as easily. Perhaps it is my settings, I’ll give it another go and see. I tried a cheap $25 pedal that really nails that stuff and at $349 the Ruby should deliver.

That’s interesting, I had the opposite experience and ended up going back to the iridium 3 times haha. I tried the Dream, went back to the Iridium, then the Woodrow, went back to the Iridium, then tried the ToneX and again, ended up back at the iridium.

Eventually I wanted to try the Fractal modeling and that’s where I’ve landed and couldn’t be happier with the options and sound quality so far. Maybe I’ll go back to the iridium again but I can’t see it happening at the moment.

It’s interesting where people land in terms of getting the “sound in your head”.

To anyone else, I’m sure I still sound exactly the same (ie not good) but to the player, it sure makes a big difference.

 

[laxu]

Yeah I liked the Iridium too. With some 3rd party IRs it worked well, sounded good and felt good to play. It has its own quirks and deficiencies for sure, and would love a V2 of that pedal too.

It's a shame there's just no goldilocks device on the market today, whether you want a complex multieffect or something very simple and straightforward.

 

[KingsXJJ]

Yeah I liked the Iridium too. With some 3rd party IRs it worked well, sounded good and felt good to play. It has its own quirks and deficiencies for sure, and would love a V2 of that pedal too.

It's a shame there's just no goldilocks device on the market today, whether you want a complex multieffect or something very simple and straightforward.

V2 is highly anticipated by me for sure!

 

[Countryclarke]

Yeah I liked the Iridium too. With some 3rd party IRs it worked well, sounded good and felt good to play. It has its own quirks and deficiencies for sure, and would love a V2 of that pedal too.

It's a shame there's just no goldilocks device on the market today, whether you want a complex multieffect or something very simple and straightforward.

I feel like NDSP tried to hit that Goldilocks sweet spot with the QC but dropped the ball massively in other areas.

 

[BenIfin]

Just got a chance to try these out at home.
F¥CK YEAH and then some. No IR’s straight into a 5 watt head/Creamback closed 2x12. I’m in. Plexi and Vox done.

We need a JCM800 model with selectable boost and mods. A 5150III, Mesa Dual Rect. And whatever higher gain units these guys can cook up and curate.

How about a one or two rack space unit with 12 amps spanning it all? Jesus I love it when I get to go… “Hell Yes! More please.”

Again .. genuinely glad you like them :)

However ...... i.m.h.o ....

....... every single Y/T demo Ive heard of them from Day 1 from idiots <-> pros ... they all sound like a fuzzy fizzy sh%tfull mess .... nothing the Fractal, Helix ... even the Ampero 2 stomp [I have one] cant do and do much better.

People bought into the Kool-Aid that as it is just one amp in a dedicated box, it must be better ... that's UA for you ..... always providing less features for more $$ ....... total bullsh%t marketing.

Not sure but did I mention how much I hate UA

This is the same company that for decades sold hardware-dongle-PCI-Cards to run their plugs because there was no way a computer *ever* could ... then ... oh ..... bam .... overnight .... yep, native is the way !!!!!

Even back in the day with a basic early Pentium and good s/card I could run a ton of VST of equal quality natively at 64 samples no worries.

It was an unbelievable scam and one that to this day I cant believe people got sucked in by and UA got away with for so long.

The utter sheer bullsh%t bean-blowing comments posted at TOP when these came out was unique even by TOP standards.

Ben

 

[KingsXJJ]

Again .. genuinely glad you like them :)

However ...... i.m.h.o ....

....... every single Y/T demo Ive heard of them from Day 1 from idiots <-> pros ... they all sound like a fuzzy fizzy sh%tfull mess .... nothing the Fractal, Helix ... even the Ampero 2 stomp [I have one] cant do and do much better.

People bought into the Kool-Aid that as it is just one amp in a dedicated box, it must be better ... that's UA for you ..... always providing less features for more $$ ....... total bullsh%t marketing.

Not sure but did I mention how much I hate UA

This is the same company that for decades sold hardware-dongle-PCI-Cards to run their plugs because there was no way a computer *ever* could ... then ... oh ..... bam .... overnight .... yep, native is the way !!!!!

Even back in the day with a basic early Pentium and good s/card I could run a ton of VST of equal quality natively at 64 samples no worries.

It was an unbelievable scam and one that to this day I cant believe people got sucked in by and UA got away with for so long.

The utter sheer bullsh%t bean-blowing comments posted at TOP when these came out was unique even by TOP standards.

Ben

Thanks for the historical context’