Free updates - where does it stop?

laxu said:
The Cloudburst's Ensemble mode is the only thing that e.g Fractal can't do with ease.

I have a Strymon Nightsky and pretty much everything on it is possible on the Fractal Reverb block, just a lot less intuitive to work with vs Strymon's curated interface.

There's always "amps/pedals of the month" type things that people ask to be added to their favorite modeler, but overall it's mostly fluff and there's already a model that could be dialed to sound pretty close if you took the time to do it.
Click to expand...
I can do the same stuff with a wood fired stove that I do with a microwave. Doesn't mean a microwave isn't a necessary addition to a home with a wood fired stove.

There's always stuff to add that is a significant improvement for loads of people. Going from 3.5 to 3.6 was a significant enough change for me that I'm able to take my FM3 out of my main music room rig and use it as a secondary rig in my house, for example.
 
BenIfin said:
F.w.i.w .... and not debating about which is best etc..... here in Oz the Axe 3 MKII Turbo + FC12 is $6846 .... no that's not a misprint.

The Helix Rack and Controller varies around $3600.

The Helix Full Floor is around $2800.

I'll leave it at that.

Ben
Click to expand...
Jesus christ this is NUTS. All of it :eek:
 
IMO, updates are probably an essential component to the life of all current and future successful modelers. Moving clients up the product chain is the lifeblood. For example, Line 6 wants everyone to get a Pod, then get them to move up to the Stomp level products, then move Stomp level customers into their flagship modelers Helix & LT and so on. Keeping them in the ecosystem increases sales for all products across the board, so I imagine updates will continue even after a new flagship product is released. At least that's what I would do if I was in that business. Updates will probably stop once a company decides to abandon a particular product line.
 
Boudoir Guitar said:
I can do the same stuff with a wood fired stove that I do with a microwave. Doesn't mean a microwave isn't a necessary addition to a home with a wood fired stove.
Click to expand...
Adding more amps and fx is often more like "You already have a wood stove, gas stove and ceramic stove. You added an induction stove". All cook food a bit different but ultimately similar results.

Things like e.g FM3's CPU usage reduction in whatever firmware it came in, Axe-Fx 3's Dyna-Cabs etc are far more valuable improvements because they make it either do more within one preset or make it easier to get good results out of it.
 
laxu said:
Adding more amps and fx is often more like "You already have a wood stove, gas stove and ceramic stove. You added an induction stove". All cook food a bit different but ultimately similar results.

Things like e.g FM3's CPU usage reduction in whatever firmware it came in, Axe-Fx 3's Dyna-Cabs etc are far more valuable improvements because they make it either do more within one preset or make it easier to get good results out of it.
Click to expand...
You are the only person I have ever read of who buys a modeler to get "less".
 
JiveTurkey said:
You are the only person I have ever read of who buys a modeler to get "less".
Click to expand...

All things equal, yes, that makes no sense. But all modelers out there are a compromise of features.

I "downgraded" all the way down to a HX Stomp XL some time ago, because the sounds are fantastic, and i don't need all the bells and whistles from its bigger counterparts. Would i take a double DSP version though? If it's in a similar form factor, without hesitation.
 
Lysander said:
All things equal, yes, but all modelers out there are a compromise of features.

I "downgraded" all the way down to a HX Stomp XL some time ago, because the sounds are fantastic, and i don't need all the bells and whistles from its bigger counterparts. Would i take a double DSP version though? If it's in a similar form factor, without any doubt.
Click to expand...
I get all this. Get what you can afford that has as much as what you need as you can. But the whole push towards "I just use the manufacturer originals and make it sound like whatever amp that actually exists because there are only 3 types of amp circuits anyway" thing just doesn't ring true for me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
JiveTurkey said:
Jesus christ this is NUTS. All of it :eek:
Click to expand...

Yep !!! I thought the use of bolding and colors *was* justified for this post :)

Actually I forgot to add the EV1 Controller to the Axe + FC + EV1 = $7,174 .... again .... no .. I'm not making this sh%t up .... previous post amended.

And yes .... these are all current prices as of today :(

I short ... here in Oz .... you can get the top of the line Helix in a Floor unit with an Exp Pedal for around $2800 from any shop - brick or online anywhere on any 365 days of the year ..... -or- buy the Rack Axe + FC + Exp Pedal from 1 place only in the whole country, site unseen and site untried in the rare event they are in stock .... for $7,174 ... [from memory i think you have all of 14 days to decide] .... that's over x 2.5 times the price of the Helix Floor.

Its no wonder ... see a band anywhere here ... and if they are using a modeler ..... %99.99 of the time its a Helix SKU or a KPA .... very very very very few Fractals out in the wild down here.

Not debating which is better / worse ... these are just the cold hard raw facts.

Ben
 
BenIfin said:
Yep !!! I thought the use of bolding and colors *was* justified for this post :)

Actually I forgot to add the EV1 Controller to the Axe + FC + EV1 = $7,174 .... again .... no .. I'm not making this sh%t up .... previous post amended.

And yes .... these are all current prices as of today :(

I short ... here in Oz .... you can get the top of the line Helix in a Floor unit with an Exp Pedal for around $2800 from any shop - brick or online anywhere on any 365 days of the year ..... -or- buy the Rack Axe + FC + Exp Pedal from 1 place only in the whole country, site unseen and site untried in the rare event they are in stock .... for $7,174 ... [from memory i think you have all of 14 days to decide] .... that's over x 2.5 times the price of the Helix Floor.

Its no wonder ... see a band anywhere here ... and if they are using a modeler ..... %99.99 of the time its a Helix SKU or a KPA .... very very very very few Fractals out in the wild down here.

Not debating which is better / worse ... these are just the cold hard raw facts.

Ben
Click to expand...
Probably a lot of Katanas out and about in your neck of the woods :rofl
 
At the upper end of the market I think any company that didn’t offer updates for the life of the device would find their sales impacted. Even if a device had more content and features out of the box, some subsection of users would still rather choose a “lesser” device that is getting consistent updates over the more content/feature complete device that wasn’t. There’s some psychology at play, and I think the rush of excitement for new amps/cabs/effects/features is part of the buy-in for many.
 
Hell .... for sh%ts and giggles I just priced the stuff in the US.

=> Axe + FC + EV1 US $3200
=> Full Floor Helix US $1700
=> Kemper Stage + Exp Pedal US $1750

F&ck ... I had never even thought / realized it was so relatively "disproportionate" even in the US !!!

Ben
 
Last edited:
laxu said:
Adding more amps and fx is often more like "You already have a wood stove, gas stove and ceramic stove. You added an induction stove". All cook food a bit different but ultimately similar results.
Click to expand...
Dialing in model Z to sound like the thing you actually want to have a model of = wood stove. Which is always your argument - "you already have the tools to get that sound".

But we all know Laxu is always right...
 
JiveTurkey said:
I get all this. Get what you can afford that has as much as what you need as you can. But the whole push towards "I just use the manufacturer originals and make it sound like whatever amp that actually exists because there are only 3 types of amp circuits anyway" thing just doesn't ring true for me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Click to expand...
You obviously didn't grow up in a house with only a wood stove.
 
Genitically I hail from Yorkshire and Lancashire. No wonder I'm a tight fisted wanker!
 
1687185867775.png
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top