Fractal Audio Systems AM4 - Amp Modeler

[Melodioso]

Anyone got theirs from G66 in Europe ?

On a side note, I understand that an importer (G66 here) must make a living. But the AM4 costs EUR 899 in Germany, the equivalent of USD 1050. That's 38% more expensive than buying it in the US (with taxes, the AM4 is approx. USD 760).

Comparatively, the Helix Stadium is USD 2340 at Sweetwater and EUR 2300 = USD 2680 in Europe, so 15% more expensive.

So, buying in Europe vs USA:

• Fractal AM4: +38%
• Line 6 Helix Stadium: +15%

???

 

[Richard_G]

The European price is EUR 755.- excluding VAT and any duties, but incl. a 3-year warranty. A 3 year warranty buying from Fractal in the US can be added, but is an additional USD 69.99. As you point out, G66 also has to cover their costs and make a living, which contribute to why it is still higher than a direct conversion of USD 699 (or USD 769 with extended warranty) to EUR.

Of course I wish it was a bit cheaper from G66 or that we could choose to buy directly from Fractal. But things are the way they are. So I’ve put in my order with G66.

(PS: Do also keep in mind that many in the US will have to pay sales tax on top of the price shown on the Fractal site.)

 

[Aleksi]

The European price is EUR 755.- excluding VAT and any duties, but incl. a 3-year warranty. A 3 year warranty buying from Fractal in the US can be added, but is an additional USD 69.99. As you point out, G66 also has to cover their costs and make a living, which is an additional reason why it is still higher than a direct conversion of USD 699 (or USD 769 with extended warranty) to EUR.

Of course I wish it was a bit cheaper from G66 or that we could choose to buy directly from Fractal. But things are the way they are. So I’ve put in my order with G66.

It's odd that just recently they were able to sell the VP4 for 100€ less. Then the AM4 came out and was priced 100€ higher than the VP4. Fractal said they were looking into it. Then suddenly the VP4 price went up match the AM4.

Maybe the cost of living in Germany shot right up the moment the AM4 was released

 

[PhilA]

For once I agree on pricing. For me in the UK I’m ok (not happy but not upset) with the £789 price tag for a premium product from a smaller company who don’t have as much leeway as Bigger boys when it comes to economies of scale. At least Fractal took this onboard and actually checked with G66 (there is a thread over on the Fractal board)
Words I never thought I’d write I want to pay less dammit

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

The European price is EUR 755.- excluding VAT and any duties, but incl. a 3-year warranty. A 3 year warranty buying from Fractal in the US can be added, but is an additional USD 69.99. As you point out, G66 also has to cover their costs and make a living, which is an additional reason why it is still higher than a direct conversion of USD 699 (or USD 769 with extended warranty) to EUR.

Of course I wish it was a bit cheaper from G66 or that we could choose to buy directly from Fractal. But things are the way they are. So I’ve put in my order with G66.

I would prefer the US price obviously. But the reality is that currently the exchange rate is just whack while America is set on devaluing their currency.
When it’s 1:1 then it makes a lot more sense.
1:.84 is a different story.

The other thing is the insane sales tax in EU.
In Germany it’s 19%, which is insane enough. Now having had to pay for Hungarian sales tax is next level. 27%.
So that 755€ item becomes with shipping 954€.

But it used to be worse. I used to read UK gear mags the price of Mesas literally was the same in £ as in $.
Even though it was 2:1.

So a MkIV or T-verb were 1795€ in the US were the same as in £.
So it literally cost twice as much.

A Chinese Tyler in the US is 1800 bucks. Same in EU in € plus tax

 

[Melodioso]

The European price is EUR 755.- excluding VAT and any duties, but incl. a 3-year warranty.

 

[Richard_G]

What’s your point? That EUR 899.- price is including VAT. The German 19 pct. VAT, I presume.

 

[Melodioso]

The other thing is the insane sales tax in EU.

Yes, sales taxes in EU are high, but they apply consistently and equally to both Line 6 and Fractal Audio. Yet:
Buying in Europe vs USA:

• Fractal AM4: +38%
• Line 6 Helix Stadium: +15%

From a consumer point of view, whether I buy from Thomann or G66 makes no difference to me.

Anyway, back to the initial question: Anyone got theirs from G66 in Europe ?

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

Yes, sales taxes in EU are high, but they apply consistently and equally to both Line 6 and Fractal Audio. Yet:
Buying in Europe vs USA:

• Fractal AM4: +38%
• Line 6 Helix Stadium: +15%

From a consumer point of view, whether I buy from Thomann or G66 makes no difference to me.

Anyway, back to the initial question: Anyone got theirs from G66 in Europe ?

I received an email from them stating that they are expecting a substantial delivery this morning and will commence shipping the devices on Thursday (which is tomorrow). I hope to receive my AM4 by the weekend.

And once again regarding the price: Yes, I also view it with a critical eye, as the mark-up is significantly higher in percentage terms than for other Fractal devices (see my post here). However, @Fractal M@ took these concerns seriously, contacted G66 about it and came to the conclusion that the price is indeed justified. I am inclined to believe him, as Fractal has no interest in letting their European distributor sell the devices at a higher price than necessary, because it would deter potential customers and therefore hurt their business.

 

[Richard_G]

Anyway, back to the initial question: Anyone got theirs from G66 in Europe ?

I don’t think they have started to ship from G66 yet.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Yes, sales taxes in EU are high, but they apply consistently and equally to both Line 6 and Fractal Audio. Yet:
Buying in Europe vs USA:

• Fractal AM4: +38%
• Line 6 Helix Stadium: +15%

From a consumer point of view, whether I buy from Thomann or G66 makes no difference to me.

Anyway, back to the initial question: Anyone got theirs from G66 in Europe ?

I paid my G66 invoice yesterday. Was told it’ll ship Thursday.

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

Here's the real scandal: No G66 T-Shirts for AM4 buyers!

 

[SillyOctpuss]

Here's the real scandal: No G66 T-Shirts for AM4 buyers!

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Yes, sales taxes in EU are high, but they apply consistently and equally to both Line 6 and Fractal Audio. Yet:
Buying in Europe vs USA:

• Fractal AM4: +38%
• Line 6 Helix Stadium: +15%

From a consumer point of view, whether I buy from Thomann or G66 makes no difference to me.

Anyway, back to the initial question: Anyone got theirs from G66 in Europe ?

I assume this is your first Fractal rodeo. This is not remotely meant to be an excuse or an apology -- as I've said many times, if I were in EU, I'd prooooooobably be rocking' Helix rather than Fractal. That said...

Fractal US pricing -- there are no dealers or distributors in the US. We buy directly from Fractal. If we need warranty work, there is no dealer or distributor to contact, it's just call Fractal direct. All of that allegedly keeps our prices lower than what they would be if we could buy the devices at Sweetwater or Guitar Center or Mom-n-Pop-Music where we can buy Line 6 gear.

G66 apparently buys their stock directly from Fractal at the same price that US customer's pay.

All of this is simply to say that comparing comparing US/EU price differentials of Fractal vs Line 6 is just...not really a useful exercise. All you can really do is (1) look at the prices of the two products in your market and decide which one makes the most sense and MAYBE (2) look at the US price vs G66 price and decide if you think that mark-up makes sense for the service G66 is providing.

 

[BROCKSTAR]

Here's some info from @Fractal M@ over on the forum.

"Having looked at this closely lately, we found that G66 pricing was appropriate. It includes a 3-year warranty as required by European law, plus shipping, plus VAT and duties (which I don't fully understand, but one of my colleagues is working on a way to explain.) For their operation to be successful, they also have additional responsibilities, including EU/UK "cross-border" administration, multi-language sales and support, and repair service in multiple countries."

AM4 more expensive in Europe

Just wondering why it's 300 euro more expensive in Europe compared elsewhere.

forum.fractalaudio.com

 

[Aleksi]

Here's some info from @Fractal M@ over on the forum.

"Having looked at this closely lately, we found that G66 pricing was appropriate. It includes a 3-year warranty as required by European law, plus shipping, plus VAT and duties (which I don't fully understand, but one of my colleagues is working on a way to explain.) For their operation to be successful, they also have additional responsibilities, including EU/UK "cross-border" administration, multi-language sales and support, and repair service in multiple countries."

AM4 more expensive in Europe

Just wondering why it's 300 euro more expensive in Europe compared elsewhere.

forum.fractalaudio.com

well I'm glad I got the VP4 before their expenses suddenly went back up again


Also three years warranty is not required by "European law."

 

[Aleksi]

I'm a happy G66 customer for the last 16+ years (Standard, II, FM3 and VP4) but in this case the pricing is a bit sus

 

[BROCKSTAR]

Also three years warranty is not required by "European law."

Yeah maybe there's new rules set to go in or something? I'm not sure but this info is what I found but I'm sure Matt knows way more about it then me

"EU law also stipulates that you must give the consumer a minimum 2-year guarantee (legal guarantee) as a protection against faulty goods, or goods that don't look or work as advertised. In some countries national law may require you to provide longer guarantees."

Consumer guarantees, warranties, claims and returns - Your Europe

Learn more about your after sales responsibilities, returns, legal guarantees, commercial warranties, and customer claims.

europa.eu

 

[Richard_G]

I believe EU law gives consumers a minimum 2 year legal guarantee, but that some European countries have longer guarantee/warranty in national law (like 3 year in Sweden) and that G66 have chosen to use a 3 year warranty for all their customers across Europe.

Edit: keep in mind that not all European countries are members of the EU and that not all laws and regulations are the same across Europe or within the EU.

 

[bucephalus]

I've decided to pass on this occasion and freed up my place for the UK list. Got an incoming Fender Telecaster Deluxe Vintera 70s that dropped out of the sky so the funds have gone to that via sale of Revstar.