Educate me on Wizard III Necks (and guitar necks in general)

[TSJMajesty]

Right hand picking motions perhaps?

I'd say no, not at all.

 

[TSJMajesty]

I am hugely envious of folks with long straight digits, which seems to be everyone but me!

I really don't think that matters. The only trouble I have, and it shows up a lot, is that my pinky is 1- 1/8" shorter than my ring finger, as measured when I lay my hand flat on a flat surface, fingers straight out.

 

[Eagle]

The original jem neck was a copy of the Charvel green meanie in most regards. The jem was a cross between the Pink Soloist and Green Meanie. Some Jem models have wizard necks and most are now closer to this than the 777.

 

[kartikg3]

I really don't think that matters. The only trouble I have, and it shows up a lot, is that my pinky is 1- 1/8" shorter than my ring finger, as measured when I lay my hand flat on a flat surface, fingers straight out.

Mine too!

 

[kartikg3]

No science here, just my own thoughts:

When it comes to width, I want a neck that allows me to play something like this, @ 138 bpm:View attachment 17246

without too much repeated practice to land each note without choking out the other notes that need to continue ringing.

So, not too narrow/tightly-spaced strings.

Then, for soloing, I want the string spacing close enough together, so that every time I switch to a different string, the tip of whatever finger (usually the 1st) can fret the note, while at the same time, mute the string next to it. This is very important in keeping the string changes clean, and not have 2 strings sound at the same time, even if it's only for a millisecond. Cuz with high gain, that sounds like shit.

So it's kind of a happy medium between the 2. Which of course depends on how fat your fingertips are.

These are great insights! Thanks!

 

[DrewJD82]

I'm definitely serious. I've never seen a convincing argument for somehow magically needing a long scale length just to add another string, aside from intonation, which of course is mega amplified in ukuleles, yet you don't see Jake Shimabokuro playing a 20" ukulele

String tension is the biggest reason I can think of, before intonation. I use a .59 for my low B string on a 25.5", I have to baby it with my right hand or that thing will be flopping, but if you go up in tension, you start losing attack and top end, which is pretty crucial when trying to get a guitar sounding balanced. You end up getting this muddy low end, then to compensate you cut the low end in your amp and everything else takes a hit.

I went through this same shit with basses and trying to tune down 34" basses, I blew through so much money in bass strings trying different things that I gave up when I knew I crossed the $500 mark in strings alone and bought a new bass.

If thick ass strings work for ya, I can totally see it, they just don't work with the way I dial stuff in or my hands or both.

 

[pipelineaudio]

As you say, string tension is a factor of three things: scale length, tuning and string gauge.

Given how many of those early 90's drop D, iconic albums were done on gibsons with sized 42 strings, which comes out to 11.8 pounds of tension, a 50 would get you there on a 7 string 24.75" scale tuned to B. I'm on with that

 

[unix-guy]

That DK-24 neck is



Too bad it wouldn’t stay in tune consistently.

Locking saddles, staggered tuners, no string tree(s).

It made a major difference for me.

 

[Eagle]

You should look into 24.75" scale also then. The shape of the neck factors less into reach than the scale length. You can always adjust your palm/thumb position on the back of a neck to compensate for thickness variations.

I'm 5'-9" and have relative sized hands/fingers and I've played everything from Wizard all the way up to a tele that was 1" - at the first fret!

A shorter scale might be a quicker ticket to better playing comfort.

P.S. The older I got (and more tasteful with my playing) the more I HATED ultra-thin necks.
These days I consider them basically guitarist training wheels.

Good thing you didn't start on classical guitar! Thems some thick necks!

Talk to a luthier about the affect of super thin necks on tone.....

Zak Wylde, John Sykes, Doug Rappaport, Eric Steckle, Adam Jones, Doug Aldrich, Slash, Buckethead, Gary Moore,.... all 24.75" scale players.

Buckethead’s Les Paul is 27” scale.

 

[Achilles]

Buckethead’s Les Paul is 27” scale.

Does he use standard tuning? Man, that would be TIGHT action.

 

[Los-D]

Bumping this thread. Played the RG7621 today and thought “this is a killer axe, why don’t I play it more often?!”

Oh yeah, because of left hand cramping. Only played for an hour and now feeling pain around my wrist and the back of my hand. Sigh, sucks getting older.

(BTW, I don’t see that with a Gibson 60s or larger neck)

(Rant over)

 

[Steinmetzify]

Man don’t you hate it when you get to pg 3 having read every post and full of your 50+ yr old insights and realize the thread is 18 months old? DAMMIT I WAS GONNA BE HELPFUL

 

[Warmart]

Bumping this thread. Played the RG7621 today and thought “this is a killer axe, why don’t I play it more often?!”

Oh yeah, because of left hand cramping. Only played for an hour and now feeling pain around my wrist and the back of my hand. Sigh, sucks getting older.

(BTW, I don’t see that with a Gibson 60s or larger neck)

(Rant over)

Are you 100% sure you aren't "iron gripping" that neck? I used to get pain with the thinnest wizard necks but finally taught myself to ease up on the, "it's my 1st real tit!" grip.

Obviously my situation != yours, so take all of that with a grain of salt, lmao.

 

[Steinmetzify]

Bumping this thread. Played the RG7621 today and thought “this is a killer axe, why don’t I play it more often?!”

Oh yeah, because of left hand cramping. Only played for an hour and now feeling pain around my wrist and the back of my hand. Sigh, sucks getting older.

(BTW, I don’t see that with a Gibson 60s or larger neck)

(Rant over)

Yeah same here. I had a 7621 cause they’re sick guitars. Same problem. Had an M80 8, same problem. Can’t play those thin wide necks, just doesn’t work for me and my average sized hands.

Makes me think of EVH who by all accounts had huge hands and played those asymmetrical necks with a 1.625 nut width and a compound radius fretboard….

 

[DrewJD82]

Bumping this thread. Played the RG7621 today and thought “this is a killer axe, why don’t I play it more often?!”

Oh yeah, because of left hand cramping. Only played for an hour and now feeling pain around my wrist and the back of my hand. Sigh, sucks getting older.

(BTW, I don’t see that with a Gibson 60s or larger neck)

(Rant over)

That's a bummer!

Do you play 7's often? If not, you gotta ease into it, like a gentleman.

 

[Los-D]

Are you 100% sure you aren't "iron gripping" that neck? I used to get pain with the thinnest wizard necks but finally taught myself to ease up on the, "it's my 1st real tit!" grip.

Obviously my situation != yours, so take all of that with a grain of salt, lmao.

Same technique unfortunately I’ve had since I was a teenager. Had Wizard I, II and III necks in the past, alongside Yamaha RGXs and old Jacksons/Charvels. The issue started after the Pandemic. Man does it still play like butter (for shredding).

Yeah same here. I had a 7621 cause they’re sick guitars. Same problem. Had an M80 8, same problem. Can’t play those thin wide necks, just doesn’t work for me and my average sized hands.

Makes me think of EVH who by all accounts had huge hands and played those asymmetrical necks with a 1.625 nut width and a compound radius fretboard….

Yeah, I hear ya. In my case, I think I am slowly moving in that direction as well (at least on the chunkier side). My Ibanez AZ neck feels amazing.

That's a bummer!

Do you play 7's often? If not, you gotta ease into it, like a gentleman.

On and off, but interestingly a lead passage was what made me pull the Ibby (“betcha I could play it cleanly there” … I did btw). But that’s a good point on easing in. Maybe need to stretch more than usual or something

 

[TSJMajesty]

"it's my 1st real tit!" grip.

I didn't use my hands.

 

[Eagle]

Yeah same here. I had a 7621 cause they’re sick guitars. Same problem. Had an M80 8, same problem. Can’t play those thin wide necks, just doesn’t work for me and my average sized hands.

Makes me think of EVH who by all accounts had huge hands and played those asymmetrical necks with a 1.625 nut width and a compound radius fretboard….

Ed was not a big guy and his hands were normal size. Most of his guitars had narrow 1 5/8” nut.

 

[Eagle]

Some people have problems relaxing their grip according to the neck and find wizard necks uncomfortable . By any ergonomic measure they are one of the best neck designs but we all know what feels comfortable for us. If you try one and struggle concentrate on keeping your fretting hand as relaxed as possible and you will probably grow to love it. Flat fingerboards also work far better and are worth the time converting too. A mid 80s Soloist is my favourite neck but I have everything from wizard to almost 1” all the way and as long as the radius is flat and the frets tall I am comfortable.

 

[Steinmetzify]

Ed was not a big guy and his hands were normal size. Most of his guitars had narrow 1 5/8” nut.

1 5/8” is equal to 1.625, which is what I said. Same thing.