E-drums: could they be a common thing for small bands gigs?

[metropolis_4]

And here it is, a sample form the last gig with an acoustic drum kit and those nasty cymbals.

Gig was open to public but was actually a private party in memory of recently died musician and biker.

We had an old and small analog mixer and drums have been miked with just a yamaha EAD10 stereo mic/trigger and it's module (this thing here https://www.thomann.it/yamaha_ead10_drum_module.htm).

Guitars for all bands fed the PA for some added spread to the audience, not too much. Bass was on its own.

Foh is not perfect but resources were limited

My guitar is very loud untill the voice kicks in and that's how it has to be.

Had a blast playing my mini jubilee very loud, had master at 6. .



Odin bless rock and roll.

I don’t think that mix was bad at all! I could have used more bass drum and a little more snare. You’re right, at first I thought the guitar was pretty loud, but then once the vocals came in it fit really well.

Actually, all I hear are cymbals, high hat and snare. It's a crap drum mix by any standard ... and typical of gigs where acoustic drums are used. On a positive note, your LP sounds really good to my ear. I can barely hear the bass.

Note, it may have sounded much better than the phone recording did justice for, but this is what I was talking about. Cymbals, snare and HH way out of whack with the rest of the mix.

Are we talking about the same video? I thought the snare was too low in the mix if anything, and the cymbals and HH seem very well balanced to me. Listening through my phone speaker

 

[sashimi]

I think OneEng just hates the sound of real drums

 

[HotRats]

Actually, all I hear are cymbals, high hat and snare. It's a crap drum mix by any standard ... and typical of gigs where acoustic drums are used. On a positive note, your LP sounds really good to my ear. I can barely hear the bass.

Note, it may have sounded much better than the phone recording did justice for, but this is what I was talking about. Cymbals, snare and HH way out of whack with the rest of the mix.

You're jokeing, right?

 

[HotRats]

I don’t think that mix was bad at all! I could have used more bass drum and a little more snare. You’re right, at first I thought the guitar was pretty loud, but then once the vocals came in it fit really well.

Unfortunately, given the tools used to amplify the drums, there was no way to control the volume of the single drums elements and the whole kit sounded a bit in the back.

Edit: I've realized this morning, looking at this yamaha ead10 we used to mic the drums - a product I wasn't familiar with - that the mic placement wasn't optimal. The guy who brought it placed it on the front the kick drum while the default position is on the kick but above the beater, closer to the snare.

This kind of setup and the result was perfectly ok for the situation. People enjoyed the gig and the whole celebration.

I definitely enjoyed playing with my drummer behind his acoustic kit and with my amp blasting some serious volume.

 

[Orvillain]

Interesting anecdote I heard from a family member yesterday. On Saturday at a local pub they had a mini festival, with a band playing in the pub car park on a lorry. The vocals were far too loud, taking people's heads off.

Acoustic drums and valve amps.

But the vocals were the thing that was too loud.

 

[bucephalus]

Interesting anecdote I heard from a family member yesterday. On Saturday at a local pub they had a mini festival, with a band playing in the pub car park on a lorry. The vocals were far too loud, taking people's heads off.

Acoustic drums and valve amps.

But the vocals were the thing that was too loud.

Should have used e-voices

 

[paisleywookiee]

Interesting anecdote I heard from a family member yesterday. On Saturday at a local pub they had a mini festival, with a band playing in the pub car park on a lorry. The vocals were far too loud, taking people's heads off.

Acoustic drums and valve amps.

But the vocals were the thing that was too loud.

 

[sashimi]

Lol @OneEng how does it feel to be 43 pages in on this topic and not one single person has agreed with you? Any second thoughts?

 

[OneEng]

Lol @OneEng how does it feel to be 43 pages in on this topic and not one single person has agreed with you? Any second thoughts?

The fact that a bunch of guys that primarily play guitar disagree about live sound at FOH (especially about volume levels and mix levels) is unsurprising.

I don't particularly care that everyone on this thread thinks that last video sounded great. It just puts the opinions in perspective.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I don't particularly care that everyone on this thread thinks that last video sounded great. It just puts the opinions in perspective.

It sure does. Between you liking the eKit mix, and you thinking that Alesis kit actually sounds good, it definitely provides perspective.

 

[deathbyguitar]

Lol @OneEng how does it feel to be 43 pages in on this topic and not one single person has agreed with you? Any second thoughts?

I've agreed with him quite a bit, actually. I'm very much in favor of using e-drums live, however with the caveat that everyone else in band should be running direct and that you should have your own mixer to dial everything in. Then that way you can just give FOH a stereo pair of XLRs and the sound guy doesn't have to do anything special to accommodate you and your bullshit. I've done this for years with both e-drums and playing to drum tracks via Superior Drummer and I'm not interested in doing it any other way. It's not for everyone but neither am I so who cares.

 

[sashimi]

It’s always deluded people that cling to their opinions most strongly, even when facing overwhelming evidence that they are wrong.

 

[paisleywookiee]

It’s always deluded people that cling to their opinions most strongly, even when facing overwhelming evidence that they are wrong.

He’s not “wrong”. He can like a shitty drum sound. It’s still subjective. He can prefer the crappier mix.

 

[deathbyguitar]

He’s not “wrong”. He can like a shitty drum sound. It’s still subjective. He can prefer the crappier mix.

Yeah the Alesis sounds weren't great. But I'm going to bet it could probably sound pretty decent with some tuning and leveling. My Yamaha DTX Pro doesn't sound perfect out of the box but I love how much smack those sounds have.. Honestly there are some really "fake" drum sounds that I think are excellent. Take Mudvayne's LD 50 or Chevelle's Wonder What's Next. Both use the same exact fake ass snare sample. Love it.

Maybe it's time that we all just agree to disagree and call it a thread?

 

[HotRats]

The fact that a bunch of guys that primarily play guitar disagree about live sound at FOH (especially about volume levels and mix levels) is unsurprising.

I don't particularly care that everyone on this thread thinks that last video sounded great. It just puts the opinions in perspective.

A good (foh or not) mix depends on lots of things, some of those things are the technologies involved, the location where the music is played and the goal of the musical event..

Putting things in perspective means understanding the wheres, the whats and the whys of a specific musical event, being it a concert or some recorded music we are about to mix.
This is somenthing you seem to don't fully grasp, I'm sorry to say that, but that's what I get from your words.

The last example I've posted is not an example of a perfect foh mix (I've even spent some few lines to describe the context and the techologies involved), it's an example of how an acoustic kit sounds in the context of the same band.
You missed the point here and, to be frank with you, you also made a comment that do not reflect the content of that recording.

I don't know, man, I'm sound engineer, I get paid to mix stuff all day and I understand the value of a good mix from a technical point of view but I also know that there are other things that matter more, some times much more.

A natural sounding drum kit has a musical value and we can't trade that with a bit of clarity and control - in any - just because FOH mix might be "better".

Maybe it's time that we all just agree to disagree and call it a thread?

Yeah, I agree with you.

 

[EOengineer]

This thread really has legs. It’s awesome that some folks have posted videos and opened some interesting (I think) constructive dialogue on the topic.

 

[JPenn]

has anyone here tried the trusound heads & cymbals? i've been reading this thread due to being interested in having a full band that can play in any place without being too loud.

i'm happy for all you folks that live in areas that have places you can turn up. unfortunately that's not the case for me

 

[OneEng]

I've agreed with him quite a bit, actually. I'm very much in favor of using e-drums live, however with the caveat that everyone else in band should be running direct and that you should have your own mixer to dial everything in. Then that way you can just give FOH a stereo pair of XLRs and the sound guy doesn't have to do anything special to accommodate you and your bullshit. I've done this for years with both e-drums and playing to drum tracks via Superior Drummer and I'm not interested in doing it any other way. It's not for everyone but neither am I so who cares.

Also, without the acoustics of the drums on stage, you do really need good monitors (or a good IEM setup). If people were used to having a loud acoustic set on stage, it is quite unsettling when it is gone.

The reason I even started down the road of finding a drummer with eDrums is the pain and agony I went through with many acoustic drummers and the problems that went along with the loud stage volume and consequent poor FOH mix. That, and I saw a couple of bands using them and immediately noticed how clean and tight their FOH sound was.

Superior Drummer is particularly good sounding, but then even eDrums with less authentic sound generally produce a nice impact out front IME.

Yeah the Alesis sounds weren't great. But I'm going to bet it could probably sound pretty decent with some tuning and leveling. My Yamaha DTX Pro doesn't sound perfect out of the box but I love how much smack those sounds have.. Honestly there are some really "fake" drum sounds that I think are excellent. Take Mudvayne's LD 50 or Chevelle's Wonder What's Next. Both use the same exact fake ass snare sample. Love it.

Maybe it's time that we all just agree to disagree and call it a thread?

Agree. I think that there are enough posts in each direction to provide anyone reading the thread enough information that should they do their own research, they will be able to come to their own conclusions.

I don't know, man, I'm sound engineer, I get paid to mix stuff all day and I understand the value of a good mix from a technical point of view but I also know that there are other things that matter more, some times much more.

A natural sounding drum kit has a musical value and we can't trade that with a bit of clarity and control - in any - just because FOH mix might be "better".

Agree to completely disagree. My experience has been the exact opposite. A good mix of average sounding instruments always wins out IMO. I feel that only musicians fixate on the tone of a guitar, or the ring of a cymbal.

Most everyone else only hears the kick, bass and vocals. Get those right and you will have a successful gig.

has anyone here tried the trusound heads & cymbals? i've been reading this thread due to being interested in having a full band that can play in any place without being too loud.

i'm happy for all you folks that live in areas that have places you can turn up. unfortunately that's not the case for me

No, but I am definitely going to ask around to my friends and see if they have any experience with them. It looks like an interesting way to keep an acoustic kit on stage and still keep the stage volume down.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Can’t wait for the next 40+ thread where everyone disagrees with one guy.

 

[GreatDaneRock]

has anyone here tried the trusound heads & cymbals? i've been reading this thread due to being interested in having a full band that can play in any place without being too loud.

i'm happy for all you folks that live in areas that have places you can turn up. unfortunately that's not the case for me

They work, at least the cymbals. The drummer I play with on occasion doesn't use this brand, but it's the same type and concept. Everyone was getting murdered with his loud cymbals, now it's so much more manageable, a pleasure to be around the drum kit compared to before. Now, if we could do something about his heavy stomp foot...