E-drums: could they be a common thing for small bands gigs?

[la szum]

Neil Peart. Alex Van Halen. Terry Bozio. Sheila E. Prince.



At one point in time I thought electronic drums would take over the world.
Hello, Roger Linn. In some ways they maybe already have. Genre-dependent.

But yeah, it's true, some styles of music = acoustic kits are completely irrelevant.

I agree if we are Metal-centric they may not be ideal. They may even be horrid. But
god damn if they don't do a thing, and work for certain styles and vibes. I
personally love my E-kits. They have been liberating in how they afford me
more opportunities to play drums in a variety of situations than acoustic kits
alone ever would have.

Just don't make me choose. I need both options. Kind of like tube amps
and digital emulations. The either/or ism is what needs to die.... not options
for playing/making music.

At least in my realm.... all shall have a place to thrive!

 

[FuzzyAce]

Neil Peart. Alex Van Halen. Terry Bozio. Sheila E. Prince.

Those hacks!

 

[TSJMajesty]

You weren't around this past weekend I take it.

 

[TSJMajesty]

Seriously, I think absolutism is the issue. Always.

 

[la szum]

You weren't around this past weekend I take it.

Not even going to ask.

Just wish everyone well. Always.

 

[spawnofthesith]

 

[HotRats]

Haven't triggered/sampled on kicks been used for multiple decades at this

point---both live and in the studio. That is not new news to me. Wasn't it also

seen as a massive improvement over purely acoustic/Mic'd kicks??

Yes but (yeah there's a butt ) most of the times samples are mixed with the acoustic sound.

When I record drums, If I know I'll mix the record, I always ask the drummer to hit some firm single shots of every piece of the drum kit, cymbals included. I cut them nicely, load them into the Trigger editor and build one kit made of the recorded drums.

When it's mixing time I eventually blend the triggered sample with the acoustic drums, at various levels, depending on the song/section or use them to feed a reverb/create bigger room sounds.

 

[la szum]

Yes but (yeah there's a butt ) most of the times samples are mixed with the acoustic sound.

When I record drums, If I know I'll mix the record, I always ask the drummer to hit some firm single shots of every piece of the drum kit, cymbals included. I cut them nicely, load them into the Trigger editor and build one kit made of the recorded drums.

When it's mixing time I eventually blend the triggered sample with the acoustic drums, at various levels, depending on the song/section or use them to feed a reverb/create bigger room sounds.

Yes.... but..... just sometimes. Not always.

 

[jay mitchell]

 

[la szum]

I could see cymbals being a sticking point for drummers, just in feel alone. But hasn't Butch Vig been using E-drums for a while now? Probably sounds like Garbage though...

Great shout there, FA!




Sponsored by Sweetwater and on their YT Channel. Coincidence? I think not.

 

[TSJMajesty]

Yes.... but..... just sometimes. Not always.

definitely maybe

 

[FuzzyAce]

Great shout there, FA!




Sponsored by Sweetwater and on their YT Channel. Coincidence? I think not.

There's a rig rundown vid too. It makes since for his band because of the diverse sounds he wants to pull from the albums. Looks like he's having fun with it.

 

[HotRats]

definitely maybe

 

[OneEng]

If a soundguy can't get a reasonable sound with an acoustic kit, an electric kit isn't going to help. Even very average venues are designed and equipped to deal with acoustic kits.

BS. I just mixed an up-scale golf club in Ann Arbor for a band with acoustic drums. Through the early part of the gig where people were still eating and talking, the mix was crap and people complained about the volume ...... ALL BECAUSE OF THE DRUMS. Basically all I could do was keep everything audible in the mix and keep the drums out of the mic's as much as possible. It was fortunate that the sound stage was pretty big so the mics were some distance (between 10-15 ft) from the drums. This is often not the case.

The 2nd half of the night things sounded good, but the volume level was WAY higher. It was a great system (RCF speakers and a new Wing mixer). The dance floor remained packed until the band stopped playing.

It would have sounded good all night with eDrums.

There are LOTS of situations where it is practically impossible to get a good mix with acoustic drums. Move that to completely impossible if the drummer isn't very easy on the hits.

So you're saying all drum samples are trash?

I'm out of this BS...

Good decision. The pack here is full of people that subscribe to the "loose and loud" equating to "good" because that is "how it is done".

It has been my experience that bands that have eDrums sound better (usually). This is directly a result of the lower stage volume. Anyone that knows anything about mixing knows how important low stage volume is to getting a good mix. Those that argue simply don't know what they are talking about.

Yes, you can get a good mix with acoustic drums; however, not in the majority of pub situations. If volume is limited, forget it. If the stage is small, forget it. If the drummer has gorilla arms .... you get the picture.

I wouldn’t sing in a band again without IEMs and it has nothin’ to do with drummers and everything to do with the general state of live venue’s monitoring, lack thereof or monitor guys who walk away from the desk.

Well we certainly agree on this one. I feel the same way about eDrums. I will never hire a drummer that uses acoustic drums. I won't even audition them. For me, it would be like hiring a lead player that used an acoustic guitar. It's just the wrong tool for the job for a bar band.

 

[metropolis_4]

The problem is we’re all just trading anecdotes.

For every “acoustic drums sounded terrible in this venue with this band in this setting” story I can give a story about a time when acoustic drums sounded great and worked perfectly at that venue with that band in that setting.

Not working in one setting doesn’t mean they always don’t work.

Working in one setting doesn’t mean they always work.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

It would have sounded good all night with eDrums.

It COULD have sounded good all night with eDrums, but there's so many other factors that come into it that its a stupid argument (because you can just "what if" with acoustic drums too). eDrums come with their own set of requirements that could easily make something relatively straightforward all go to shit. For every "eDrums would have solved this" they create just as many problems that don't exist for acoustic drums.

There are LOTS of situations where it is practically impossible to get a good mix with acoustic drums. Move that to completely impossible if the drummer isn't very easy on the hits.

Again, it just depends on circumstances. If you bring the wrong gear, or use it badly, shit will sound bad. Does not matter if it's acoustic drums or real. The bottleneck is not the gear, it's the humans organising and using it.

And if we're going to reduce this discussion to "what about background music at a golf club?" then wtf are we even discussing?

I love ekits for what they are but for live music they are 100% shite. I don't care how good someone thinks they can make them sound in a mix, its an absolute vibe killer that makes more problems than it solves.

Yes, you can get a good mix with acoustic drums; however, not in the majority of pub situations. If volume is limited, forget it. If the stage is small, forget it. If the drummer has gorilla arms .... you get the picture.

In these situations, there will be far more problems than swapping the acoustic drums for electric ones will be able to solve. It's just swapping one version of bad for a worse one.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

So much of live sound in smaller venues is using the PA to reinforce the sound being created by the band, not to overpower it. Anyone who is trying to minimise stage volume to the extent that all the audience hears is direct signals perhaps needs to re-evaluate whether that approach works for every situation. Real drums (or any acoustic instrument) being performed in and reacting to an actual acoustic space is much more pleasing to listen to than samples being played back through whatever PA happens to be there. Often the sound of the acoustic instruments will sound better and the PA doesn't need to work so hard. Requiring an entire band to have decent in ear monitoring (and appropriate mixes) could well just be overcomplicating something that doesn't need it, and quite possibly for a worse result.

Its all what if's essentially, but Ill still stand by the fact that eDrums are not the solution some here think they are.

 

[Orvillain]

The problem is we’re all just trading anecdotes.

Yeah true. But some of us are actually working in the field, and some of us have experience in rock clubs and actual music venues.

 

[spawnofthesith]

Yeah true. But some of us are actually working in the field, and some of us have experience in rock clubs and actual music venues.

Golf course restaurant. Checkmate. Drums bad.

 

[fetishfrog]

Nothing wrong with an e-drum kit that sounds good.

I used to play in a couple of your more 'experimental' groups where the drummers would supplement their kits with pads that had unique sounds.

My favorite was a drummer who built a 'kit' out of sampled sounds. He was a folio guy for film. His kick drum was a cathode ray TV tube thrown from a 2 story scaffold.

I've also managed to successfully play venues ranging from golf course restaurants to open air outdoor stages and rock clubs with drummers who used acoustic kits. Somehow that's worked for 100 years or so.

I am guessing it's not the tools...