E-drums: could they be a common thing for small bands gigs?

[[Nathan]]

So much of this is genre dependant, I guess I just listen to punk metal and heavier rock where again I can’t recall ever seeing an ekit on stage. Was trying to think of the smallest “big” gig in recent years and this one came to mind. The energy the band and the crowd have is so cool and there’s just no way an ekit would have cut the mustard.

If the same venue was hosting a guns n roses tribute band on Thursday night bingo, yeah sure tame things down.

As a side note I love seeing a band like speed get massive momentum and spark that raw muso flare into the next wave of kids, inspiring stuff.

 

[spawnofthesith]

So much of this is genre dependant, I guess I just listen to punk metal and heavier rock where again I can’t recall ever seeing an ekit on stage. Was trying to think of the smallest “big” gig in recent years and this one came to mind. The energy the band and the crowd have is so cool and there’s just no way an ekit would have cut the mustard.

If the same venue was hosting a guns n roses tribute band on Thursday night bingo, yeah sure tame things down.

As a side note I love seeing a band like speed get massive momentum and spark that raw muso flare into the next wave of kids, inspiring stuff.

Jam bands ain’t playing ekits either and it would be hard to argue any scene having a higher focus/quality live mix or sound (regardless of what anything thinks of the music)


I’m a life long metalhead too. I’ve heard plenty of fucked/shitty live metal mixes in my time but an e kit wouldn’t change any of that. Usually the drums are the best sounding part

 

[HotRats]

A good mix is worth much more than good guitar tone, or good drum tone. In fact, I place it above everything else. Even a great vocalist will sound like crap (or not be heard) if the mix is crap.

A good mix is important but can't place it above everything else.

Live sound engineers are about as important as the light-bulbs in the room

A bit hyperbolic but yeah it's more like that than the opposite.


Again, imho trying (or wish) to get an area type mix in pubs or small venues is pointless.

Every time a band play in place where direct acoustic drums sound that gets to the audience is relevant, we should just live with it and build the foh mix around it.

After all acoustic drums, especially good ones, sound pretty good by themselves. Is not that drums sound like shit and we have to hide them.

In small rooms foh speakers are to be used as reinforcement for weaker sources and not to build full band mixes.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

Drummer checking in. I can easily find ways to be musical on an acoustic kit that I can't in an ekit. The feel and response just isn't there. Not the same as guitar through a modeler by far. That said, ekits are fun to play at times and can be a great tool. I wouldn't want to have one be my only option.

 

[la szum]

13 pages already???

Clearly, you guys must be fighting about something. Again.

I mean, conversating.

 

[Sascha Franck]

We should invite some real drummers.

 

[paisleywookiee]

We should invite some real drummers.

Let's not go overboard, gentlemen.

 

[la szum]

Most days I wake up in a world of relativity where we then go about our days trying to impose
absolutes. Digital is always wrong. Analog is always better. Tubes always rule. Modelers always
suck and never cut through the mix.

A is always superior to B.

B is always inferior to A.

Blah.... Blah.... Blah....

I pretty much can't stand that world of superimposing our self-created absolutes onto a world of
"sometimes this, but sometimes that." Mostly because it is exhausting in its own futility.

Sometimes A is actually better than B. Sometimes B is actually better than A. It depends.

Being open to options and other possibilities is probably a strength, and not a curse where we
sacrifice our high-falutin' principles of alwaysness and neverness.

I like some things in certain situations (because I think they are more effective, or convenient,
or both more effective and more convenient) and sometimes I like other things in certain
situations. Just like I like tube amps and big, dumb cabs and sometimes I like digital and 2
nearfield monitors.

Hybridization is our future. Bring on the Borgmanity!!

 

[Sascha Franck]

A is always superior to B.

B is always inferior to A.

But hold on, Macs are better than PCs!
Oh wait, did I mix that up?
I'm confused...

 

[la szum]

I like it all! To 13 year old me every piece of kit is awesome----because 13 year old me
didn't have jack shit!!

Everything exists for a purpose. So why can't we use what the fuck works
for us and not worry about what others think??

That said, silent stages are gross as F! Save them for the Funeral!

 

[paisleywookiee]

Honestly, while my eKit isn’t extraordinary, it’s damn fun to be able to play with the gents silently, if the situation otherwise doesn’t allow for it.

 

[la szum]

But hold on, Macs are better than PCs!
Oh wait, did I mix that up?
I'm confused...

He's found the one absolute that holds true!

It is oddly strange how the R-word that ends with -igon seems to have seeped so
far into our brain's thought processes that it begins to infect/effect/impact almost
everything we do.

Sometimes.

 

[la szum]

Honestly, while my eKit isn’t extraordinary, it’s damn fun to be able to play with the gents silently, if the situation otherwise doesn’t allow for it.

Heck yeah. Fun is it's own reward. I'd rather find a workaround in the face of constraints than
to NOT play at all.

I have an Hybrid kit at home with real Cymbals, Hi-Hats, Snare, and triggered Kick and Toms.
Have used an Hybrid Kit live many, many times, too..... because the consistency of a triggered
Kick often topped a Mic'd up Kick. And yes, I have heard a an actual Leslie bleed into a Kick Mic
and it was not pleasant for the band or the audience.


We currently use a Roland trigger on an Acoustic Kick at our rehearsal space, too, with a powered Sub.

I have played with quite a few drummers who ran hybrid setups.... because of the consistency, the
unknown room issues when you play new places, and the ... errrr..... consistency. Triggered/sampled
Kicks are bad-ass. They're on a ton of Albums going way back, too. And I bet they are more present
in Live situations than a lot of us suspect when we see a Mic'd Acoustic Kit on a big stage.

 

[Chocol8]

We should invite some real drummers.

I thought the goal was to get rid of them?

 

[Chocol8]

But hold on, Macs are better than PCs!
Oh wait, did I mix that up?
I'm confused...

Macs ARE better than PC's for a lot of things.

BUT, for some things like gaming or intense AI training, PC's are better than Macs.

It's all absolutely a grey area, except where there are gray areas, all of which depends on stuff that may or may not be clear as mud. How is this possibly confusing?

 

[OneEng]

Every time a band play in place where direct acoustic drums sound that gets to the audience is relevant, we should just live with it and build the foh mix around it.

With acoustic drums, the ONLY option is to build the mix around the drums.

The issue is that if the drums are at 90db+ without the PA being turned on, and alot of that is in frequencies that you DON'T want to be prominent in the mix, getting the sound mixed around it may be impossible without driving everyone out of the room.

The answer most FOH engineers end up with is that the mix is just not good .... but it is good enough to make it through the gig.

 

[HotRats]

With acoustic drums, the ONLY option is to build the mix around the drums.

The issue is that if the drums are at 90db+ without the PA being turned on, and alot of that is in frequencies that you DON'T want to be prominent in the mix, getting the sound mixed around it may be impossible without driving everyone out of the room.

The answer most FOH engineers end up with is that the mix is just not good .... but it is good enough to make it through the gig.

You described it perfectly but....(are you ready?) that's why I've said

There's a certain amount of "loud" you just can't avoid with acoustic drums in a rock setting. That's just how it is. It's the beauty of it.
Quiet rock bands with acoustic drums simply don’t exist in reality. And yes, the volume level that a rock band puts out can definitely be a problem for some venues.

My answer to the volume issue isn’t to ask the band to turn it down, but to stop hiring rock bands in the first place, if live music is the main attraction.

And I stand my ground regarding small venues: those that can't handle the volume necessary to host a rock band shouldn't hire rock bands, instead of asking them to lower the volume.
Bands that are asked to play unnecessary quieter should raise their middle finger, instead of opting for e-drum kits and silent stages.

 

[EOengineer]

Honestly, while my eKit isn’t extraordinary, it’s damn fun to be able to play with the gents silently, if the situation otherwise doesn’t allow for it.

Also super useful for songwriting and production work, especially for those of us prone to waking up at 3AM with “an idea”

 

[Orvillain]

Imagine famous drummers making drum content, expansion packs, grooves, whatever.... which drummers would you want??

 

[TSJMajesty]

Imagine famous drummers making drum content, expansion packs, grooves, whatever.... which drummers would you want??

Gavin Harrison
Marco Minneman
are 2 off the top of my head.