E-drums: could they be a common thing for small bands gigs?

[DrewJD82]

Having recorded a bunch of real drums in the past, I’m also dumbfounded about what we consider a natural drum sound on recordings. No drum recording, or kit through a PA, has ever sounded like what I hear in a room.

This definitely true the majority of the time, especially with the kick and snare. You can get a kick sounding pretty clicky and EQ’d on it’s own with a different beater, legitimate muffling (not a pillow), tuning and mic placement, but how often does that happen? Toms and cymbals, on a great kit with fresh heads and a drummer that knows where to hit them rarely need any treatment though. Those Drumeo vids have been great for displaying that, overall they mostly sound like they’re doing some work on the kick/snare while letting the overheads handle everything else.

 

[KHAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!]

I really think for bar and club gigs where drums go through the PA, a hybrid setup using e-drums for Kik and toms, and a mic'd snare with real cymbals would be optimal. The Kik and toms are the toughest to make sound good through the PA. Gate, heavy eq and compressors blah blah blah.

 

[Orvillain]

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[EOengineer]

Currently in a band that rehearses totally silent with an electronic kit, SD3, and Helix/Tonex on guitars and bass.

The short answer is yes, bands should be migrating this direction but drummers are a bunch of dumb bitches.

The more nuanced answer is that the technology to replace an acoustic kit with an electric one isn’t fully there yet. Drummers are still bitches tho. My Telecaster doesn’t sound or play like my Martin, but you don’t see me refusing to use the Tele at the expense of the sound and stage volume of the rest of the band.

We will eventually get there out of necessity, as those local gigs with full stage volume are drying up and will continue to do so. Forward thinking drummers already know this and are starting to adapt. Others will be left behind, where they belong.

I hate drummers.

Edit: this post may contain some sarcasm…

 

[BahamaDada]

I just read those pages and ppl saying "It's not the same! It's not *there*".

I won't debate if my Helix is *there* technilogy-wiss, but for sure it's not the same as having a nice, tubey amp next to me filling the room with organic (non-miced) tones, giving some oomph to rattle my pants legs and shake the floor (maybe the latter is more a bass thing). Still using it bc I am a rational being (most if the time), that sees advantages and new possibilities.

Also all the comparisons to those wacky midi(?)-guitars aren't really doing it for me. It's rather like playing an acoustic, but instead of an acoustic you play a silent acoustic (those Yamaha ones IIRC?).

And I'd do that for stage silence.

Also I can totally understand some drummer wanting to play a real kit at a gig. Surely a feast for the eyes. But rehearsal? Nobody cares. Keep the volume low, so we can hear each other better.

 

[metropolis_4]

Currently in a band that rehearses totally silent with an electronic kit, SD3, and Helix/Tonex on guitars and bass.

The short answer is yes, bands should be migrating this direction but drummers are a bunch of dumb bitches.

The more nuanced answer is that the technology to replace an acoustic kit with an electric one isn’t fully there yet. Drummers are still bitches tho. My Telecaster doesn’t sound or play like my Martin, but you don’t see me refusing to use the Tele at the expense of the sound and stage volume of the rest of the band.

We will eventually get there out of necessity, as those local gigs with full stage volume are drying up and will continue to do so. Forward thinking drummers already know this and are starting to adapt. Others will be left behind, where they belong.

I hate drummers.

You do realize that the whole reason the Tele was even invented was to allow the guitarist to be louder than they were able to be with a Martin right?

That whole analogy makes zero sense

 

[EOengineer]

You do realize that the whole reason the Tele was even invented was to allow the guitarist to be louder than they were able to be with a Martin right?

That whole analogy makes zero sense

Which acoustic kits do you think are louder than a medium size club PA system?

 

[JiveTurkey]

Again; I must be super lucky in BFE midwest that I play with drummers who don't think every practice and gig is made to recreate Motorhead/Sunn-O concerts

 

[metropolis_4]

Also all the comparisons to those wacky midi(?)-guitars aren't really doing it for me. It's rather like playing an acoustic, but instead of an acoustic you play a silent acoustic (those Yamaha ones IIRC?).

It’s nothing like that. Not even close. I don’t think you understand the instrument

 

[metropolis_4]

Which acoustic kits do you think are louder than a PA system?

Your post was about being quieter, not louder.

Now you’re suggesting drummers should use e drums so they can be louder?

 

[EOengineer]

Your post was about being quieter, not louder.

Now you’re suggesting drummers should use e drums so they can be louder?

The point is that an electronic kit can be both quieter or louder than an acoustic kit. Just like a tele to a Martin.

 

[metropolis_4]

The point is that an electronic kit is that it can be both quieter or louder than an acoustic kit. Just like a tele to a Martin.

You’re saying you use an electric guitar live instead of an acoustic so you can control your stage volume?

That’s the only difference between the two instruments to you? You play your Tele the same way you play a Martin and use it to perform the same parts, just with controlled volume?

I’m assuming that means you plug your Tele straight in and don’t use an amp or any type of effects?

 

[Chocol8]

Electric drums certainly have their place, but I still think no drum kit is more of the future (and present) than electric drums.

 

[DLC86]

E-Drums
Piezo sensor -> voltage-to-MIDI conversion -> playback of samples associated to a specific velocity and note (zone or articulation)

Now, what's more similar to this:

A. Amp modeling
Analog guitar -> A/D audio conversion -> amp sim

or

B. MIDI Guitar
Piezo or magnetic hexaphonic pickup -> voltage-to-MIDI conversion -> playback of samples associated to a specific velocity and note (and string, in some cases)

?

 

[TSJMajesty]

No drum recording...has ever sounded like what I hear in a room.

I always thought this sounded very good.

 

[DLC86]

I always thought this sounded very good.

So songs about religion are accepted? Can I post a song about a president?

 

[EOengineer]

You’re saying you use an electric guitar live instead of an acoustic so you can control your stage volume?

That’s the only difference between the two instruments to you? You play your Tele the same way you play a Martin and use it to perform the same parts, just with controlled volume?

I’m assuming that means you plug your Tele straight in and don’t use an amp or any type of effects?

I’m sorry if I offended you in some way, but you’re so far removed from what i originally wrote that I’m not going to waste effort responding.

TLDR - Acoustic drums are loud and an increasing number of venues take issue with that. The drummers that can adapt to electronic kits, whether through full or partial adoption, should. Drummers who cannot or will not adapt should get REALLY good at controlling dynamics and hopefully not be too shocked if their gigs start to dry up over the next decade.

Acoustic drums will always have their place, that place just might not be on stage.

 

[EOengineer]

E-Drums
Piezo sensor -> voltage-to-MIDI conversion -> playback of samples associated to a specific velocity and zone

Now, what's more similar to this:

A. Amp modeling
Analog guitar -> A/D audio conversion -> amp sim

or

B. MIDI Guitar
Piezo or magnetic hexaphonic pickup -> voltage-to-MIDI conversion -> playback of samples associated to a specific velocity and string

?

I appreciate the MIDI analogy. I think for anyone working with these tools daily it’s fairly obvious.

 

[DLC86]

I appreciate the MIDI analogy. I think for anyone working with these tools daily it’s fairly obvious.

Doesn't seem so judging from the number of analogies with amp modeling made in this thread

 

[Orvillain]

TLDR - Acoustic drums are loud and an increasing number of venues take issue with that.

Quite honestly, fuck those venues. They're not worth the shit on my shoes. I'd rather steal a diesel generator and take 20 people out into a field, and rock their fucking arses off until we're all tripping and seeing Silent Hill monsters for the next two weeks.