E-drums: could they be a common thing for small bands gigs?

[metropolis_4]

They aren’t convenient at all in some ways. They’re more of a PITA to transport and set up than acoustic drums.

They always sound like e-drums. There’s a fake sheen to the sound that is terrible in a mix and never blends right.

There’s nothing worse in the audience in small venues than hearing the THWACK THWACK THWACK of sticks hitting rubber and hearing some sort of “real” drum sound underneath that.

There’s nothing worse as a drummer than finding all the transition points between samples and getting a jarring change in sound you don’t want.

To me as an audience member and a drummer it becomes distracting when I hear the same drum sample played over and over. It’s not a natural sound. My ears are used to hearing the nuanced changes of sound of real drums

 

[Orvillain]

Bands that use eDrums have a much better chance at having a good mix at FOH. The drums cause so much stage noise that it is impossible for all the vocal mics not to pick them up.

All other differences in sound are trivial in comparison.

Unless you are gigging a stadium where there is all the room in the world for the drums to be set back away from the vocal mics, eDrums will always make a better solution for a live gig. Of course, there is always drum shields for acoustic drums. They work OK, but ultimately eDrums just sound better live with much less work.

I do get that they don't physically react the same as real drums ..... although the newer ones with mesh heads are closer. I have played in bands since the early 2000's that use eDrums. I won't ever hire another drummer that uses acoustic drums. It's just a "No" for my band.

That's cool for you like, but it isn't something I'd ever sanction in any of my bands - and I have/had a vested interest in people using the damn stuff!!!

I just think there is a time and a place for everything - for me, I love ekits and drum samples in terms of composition and production work. I don't think they're necessary or even that great for live work - well... rock music anyway. Plenty of electronic bands where it does work.

 

[spawnofthesith]

Bands that use eDrums have a much better chance at having a good mix at FOH. The drums cause so much stage noise that it is impossible for all the vocal mics not to pick them up.

All other differences in sound are trivial in comparison.

Unless you are gigging a stadium where there is all the room in the world for the drums to be set back away from the vocal mics, eDrums will always make a better solution for a live gig. Of course, there is always drum shields for acoustic drums. They work OK, but ultimately eDrums just sound better live with much less work.

I do get that they don't physically react the same as real drums ..... although the newer ones with mesh heads are closer. I have played in bands since the early 2000's that use eDrums. I won't ever hire another drummer that uses acoustic drums. It's just a "No" for my band.

If bands are having bad chances at a good FOH mix with/because of acoustic drums they should be playing better venues/most basic level competence sound guys

 

[deathbyguitar]

Bands that use eDrums have a much better chance at having a good mix at FOH. The drums cause so much stage noise that it is impossible for all the vocal mics not to pick them up.

I agree with this but especially if drums and bass are going direct as well. I've found it's way easier to just have your whole live rig (vocals included) dialed in with something like an X-air mixer and hand a stereo XLR pair to FOH. That way you know that it sounds the way you want it and the sound guy just needs to crank it up.

 

[sleewell]

been running a small DIY spot for a bit and all i'll say is god i hope not.

real drums, real amps and cabs. lets fucking go.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I must just be phenomenally lucky to live in BFE yet somehow still be surrounded by phenomenal soundmen who don't trip over microphone stands and can mix guitar amps with real drums and multiple people singing without breaking a sweat.

 

[DrewJD82]

I was going to copy my post from the Kemper thread but this might be a better option-

These two examples show exactly why e-kits aren’t there yet, they’re both timestamped. Once the full band kicks in and the drummers switch to the ride, you hear immediately it’s not a real ride. And that’s not even meant to be a ‘dynamic’ ride part. Note the snare sounds between both kits, particularly in the fills.


Now the same song played on an e-kit-


After you listen to the 2nd vid, go back to the 1st again to refresh your perspective.

The cymbals and snares just don’t have the capability of sounding realistic in a live setting yet. You can get so many different sounds out of a snare drum before the head breaks from being hit too hard, far more than the 127 samples you get with an e-kit. I think it’s fair to say that a snare being hit by a human is very similar to the interaction a guitarist experiences between the strings and the sound coming out of an actual guitar cab, it can be manipulated and ‘played’ like an instrument itself.

 

[dk_ace]

I’ve had to get play gigs with them some years back. They sound trash. Very thankful to not be doing that anymore.

It blows my mind that some gigs are cool with acoustic drums even unshielded in some cases, but not with guitar amps. I’d rather have real drums and direct rigs than electric drums and direct rigs. It is what it is…

I think it is relatively well known that they sound trash around here. I have not seen them gaining in popularity, if anything they fell off sharply about 5ish years ago.

D

 

[2112]

There's a false equivalence between e-drums and digital modelling IMO. You still play a guitar with a modelling rig, with all the tactile response and nuances present at the source. E-drums fundamentally change that as you're no longer hitting skins but pressure sensitive pads.

I've done gigs where our drummer uses an SPDS rigged up as an e-kit and it's been very fun, albeit very different to a regular gig. Great for small trio gigs in cafe's & pubs where the band is not the center of attention. Even better if the drummer leans into it and stands up

Similar vibe to this

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

just like some guitarists are moving to digital modelers/profilers instead of carrying an amp, would it make sense that drummers make a similar move, at least for convenience? Do we reject it just because we are not used to it yet or do they really sound that bad?

I heard a band in a local bistro using some digital drums and they sounded really good. Kept the volume to a good level and they made up for it with musicianship. Does it sound the same as a "kit in the room"? No.

We've floated using a quality V-Drum kit to three separate drummers in our group and all of them despised the idea. It's funny how guitarists can adapt to using modelers instead of amps but somehow drummers are so resistant to the analogous move. Our next drummer will have no choice but to use an electronic kit because of our silent stage requirements. Until that time, there's drum tracks. They show up on time, never make a mistake, and there's no drool left on the riser after the set.

 

[metropolis_4]

I heard a band in a local bistro using some digital drums and they sounded really good. Kept the volume to a good level and they made up for it with musicianship. Does it sound the same as a "kit in the room"? No.

We've floated using a quality V-Drum kit to three separate drummers in our group and all of them despised the idea. It's funny how guitarists can adapt to using modelers instead of amps but somehow drummers are so resistant to the analogous move. Our next drummer will have no choice but to use an electronic kit because of our silent stage requirements. Until that time, there's drum tracks. They show up on time, never make a mistake, and there's no drool left on the riser after the set.

It’s not an analogous move, that’s why there’s so much resistance to it. See many of the comments in this thread that discuss that.

How would you react if you showed up at a rehearsal and I told you we need you to start playing all your guitar parts on this:

 

[Sascha Franck]

How would you react if you showed up at a rehearsal and I told you we need you to start playing all your guitar parts on this:

I'd tell you to just wait and see, then grab a Roland MT-32 and play the entire gig with the infamous "Shakuhachi" patch.

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

It’s not an analogous move, that’s why there’s so much resistance to it. See many of the comments in this thread that discuss that.

How would you react if you showed up at a rehearsal and I told you we need you to start playing all your guitar parts on this:

Yeah I get your point but it's maybe a little exaggerated, especially on a quality v-drum kit. I still had to eliminate half of my rig to be able to continue playing, and if you're playing with a loud amp you get used to that coupling between the speaker and instrument. But the benefit of losing half the equation was that our guitars sound considerably and consistently better and we're able to pull off sounds we couldn't with a traditional amp.

Same goes with electronic drums. Is it ideal? No. Can you get used to it? Yes. Plenty do. Do you get to continue playing? yep. Can you introduce some new sounds and accomplish some things you couldn't with a traditional kit? Also yes.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I'd tell you to just wait and see, then grab a Roland MT-32 and play the entire gig with the infamous "Shakuhachi" patch.

I'm imagining the sounds of the Karate Kid soundtrack song "Praise the Bonsai Tree" as drum sounds are all replaced with the sound of various bamboo flutes

 

[Orvillain]

I'm imagining the sounds of the Karate Kid soundtrack song "Praise the Bonsai Tree" as drum sounds are all replaced with the sound of various bamboo flutes

Ironically, in the current vintage synth 80's obsessed climate we're currently in musically speaking, this is the one thing that would totally play well at the moment.

 

[[Nathan]]

Yeah I get your point but it's maybe a little exaggerated, especially on a quality v-drum kit. I still had to eliminate half of my rig to be able to continue playing, and if you're playing with a loud amp you get used to that coupling between the speaker and instrument. But the benefit of losing half the equation was that our guitars sound considerably and consistently better and we're able to pull off sounds we couldn't with a traditional amp.

Same goes with electronic drums. Is it ideal? No. Can you get used to it? Yes. Plenty do. Do you get to continue playing? yep. Can you introduce some new sounds and accomplish some things you couldn't with a traditional kit? Also yes.

Using a modeller instead of an amp is way less of a downgrade/sacrifice than hitting pads over real kit pieces.
I get it from your end but I still wouldn’t blame drummers, I 100% get it. It’s more just finding one who’s happy to play live that way, not really a knock on the ones that don’t want to.

I find it funny the hills that guitarists are willing to die on when it comes to gear and tones, yet when it comes to someone else’s entire instrument they can have such a dismissive opinion (cmon guy it’s pretty much the same isn’t it ).

 

[metropolis_4]

Yeah I get your point but it's maybe a little exaggerated, especially on a quality v-drum kit. I still had to eliminate half of my rig to be able to continue playing, and if you're playing with a loud amp you get used to that coupling between the speaker and instrument. But the benefit of losing half the equation was that our guitars sound considerably and consistently better and we're able to pull off sounds we couldn't with a traditional amp.

Same goes with electronic drums. Is it ideal? No. Can you get used to it? Yes. Plenty do. Do you get to continue playing? yep. Can you introduce some new sounds and accomplish some things you couldn't with a traditional kit? Also yes.

The difference is you get to keep the instrument you are physically interacting with while playing (your guitar), the drummer doesn’t.

The MIDI guitar is the closest analogy I can think of. Think of drum sticks as analogous to a guitar pick, and the drums/cymbals as analogous to your guitar.

Sure, if it’s a requirement everyone needs to decide if it’s worth it to them. Just like some guitarists have decided it’s not worth it if they can’t use their amp. I know some drummers who grudgingly use e-drums when they have no other choice, and I know others who flat out refuse to take a gig that requires them.

 

[Orvillain]

The best analogy I can come up with is that replacing acoustic drums with an e-kit is like replacing guitar strings with bicycle chains.

 

[ragingplatypi]

If enough $500 Alesis and Simmons kits keep getting picked up for the holidays, we’ll get plenty of electronic kit drummers in 15-20 years. By then, they’ll probably have some equivalent of a modeling amp with a direct input in the back.

 

[ragingplatypi]

I gotta say, the two times I played with someone using a nice electronic kit, through a nice PA where everyone was direct, it was fantastic. But the PITA factor is real. I hope the success of guitar modelers and desire for silent stages mean we will get cheaper and more user friendly edrums soon.