Digital Igloo (Eric Klein, YGG)

zib said:
Hi DI and forumers.
Is it Relevant to release an updated hardware model, with the same software "core" ?
I mean Helix Mk2, the same with newer DSPs...
Of course, there are pros and cons. Fractal have success with Mk2 and turbo versions.
So why not ?
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We're certainly not opposed to releasing a faster version of the same thing—POD HD500X and POD HD Pro X were a precedent here—but AFAIK, Helix is currently running the fastest version of its particular SHARC's family. That means there's no swap-the-DSP-out thing going on without A) a lot of hardware, architecture, and firmware work and B) everyone would then demand faster versions of Helix Rack, Helix LT, HX Effects, HX Stomp, and HX Stomp XL as well. And because the architectures are just different enough, we'd need to develop for and test twice as many SKUs for every sustaining update.

If there were a SHARC from the same family that could easily be brought up on the same main board—but was 50% faster or something—that'd be a different conversation.

Also, I've mentioned this before, but the same-ol'-Helix-just-a-bit-faster would be, while perhaps beneficial to some, quite anticlimactic to the rest of us. I live for product design, and there's no design required for a faster Helix other than maybe what font to use for "MkII" or "Über" or "Extreme" or "Redux" or "Electric Boogaloo"...

Oh, and bringing this 'round to the start of the thread... it's the first day of michelada-with-a-dill-pickle season. Cheers, all!

Michelada.png
 
@Digital Igloo, as a product designer do you think for the 'next thing' to be successful it will have to be revolutionary or evolutionary?

From end-customer perspective, it seems that all the niches have been filled and another "trend hodgepodge" might not sweep the market off its feet or be long lived.
 
James Freeman said:
@Digital Igloo, as a product designer do you think for the 'next thing' to be successful it will have to be revolutionary or evolutionary?

From end-customer perspective, it seems that all the niches have been filled and another "trend hodgepodge" might not sweep the market off its feet or be long lived.
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Yours is a good take.

What's a bit irritating is that the masses continue to eat. it. up. Every four or five days there'll be another "What should Line 6 do for their next flagship?" thread and the answers are always the same tired smorgasbord of [near-comically obvious requests] and [trend hodgepodge]. As if the world will stop spinning unless every multieffects manufacturer ends up with the exact same set of features, implemented in nearly the same way ("Helix's UI, but with a touchscreen, of course!") And one or two on Facebook act as if they're gifting us the holy grail, as if we haven't heard it all a million times before. :satan

Perhaps our hand will be forced to continue placating the masses—perhaps a bit begrudgingly—but with luck, any trend hodgepodge from Line 6 will be relegated to marketing bullet #27 or something, so we'll be able focus attention on more interesting things.
 
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Does the Headrush Prime annoy you less or more than the original Headrush pedalboard since this new design borrows pretty heavily from the Boss GT1000 aesthetically?
 
Other than the Line 6 Pod 1.0, the Kemper Profiler, and IRs what other products or features are revolutionary rather than evolutionarily. Not asked as snark.
 
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signalpath said:
Other than the Line 6 Pod 1.0, the Kemper Profiler, and IRs what other products or features are revolutionary rather than evolutionarily. Not asked as snark.
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If I were researching for a term paper, I could probably find hundreds of revolutionary MI products. The biggest ones in my lifetime are probably the Korg M1, Digidesign's Sound Designer, and the Alesis ADAT. However, if we limit the discussion to modern-ish digital guitar technology, my bias is really gonna show, but I'll explain my reasoning, so buckle up.

Not a fan of the term "revolutionary" (and don't get me started on how much I loathe "gamechanger") but IF one were to define revolutionary as:
  1. Something that hadn't really existed in this space before, AND
  2. Its functionality is now (or is quickly becoming) widespread across the industry, even if it was largely ignored at the time...
...I gotta say, Line 6 has been smack dab in the middle of it all. NOTE: for a product to be revolutionary, it doesn't necessarily need to be popular. Or even good.

In order of release:
  • Roland GP-100 (1995)—The very first product with digital amp modeling technology
  • Line 6 AxSys (1996)—First digital modeling amp, came out a few months after the GP-100
  • Line 6 POD (1998)—Obvious
  • Line 6 Amp Farm (1998)—The first instrument-centric signal processing software. Also, I believe, the first skeuomorphic plugin design. If not the first, one of the very first desktop-based emulations of any type of hardware
  • Line 6 DL4 (1999)—Ushered in a host of sophisticated multi-model digital pedals, changed what pedals could be
  • Line 6 GuitarPort (2002) —First online tone and lesson library, complete with commercially licensed songs. Also first subscription-based model in this space
  • Line 6 Spider (2002?)—For better or worse, ushered in a host of affordable digital practice amps. Later versions started the whole "sharing content online" thing
  • Fractal Axe FX (2006)—Proved that high-end, no-holds-barred guitar-centric DSP could be successful. Also, IRs
  • X2 Wireless (2007)—Very first digital instrument wireless, now we're inundated with dozens of $39 guitar wireless systems
  • Line 6 Backtrack (2009)—First product to constantly buffer audio and go back in time to capture something you played in the past
  • Line 6 MIDI Mobilizer (2010)—Very first MI accessory for a smartphone/tablet, also TRS MIDI
  • Kemper Profiler (2012)—Very first amp capture technology
  • Line 6 AMPLFi (2014)—Very first guitar product with mobile, wireless editing and realtime, online, crowdsourced content. One day I'll tell the whole story, and it's a doozy.
Now there are a ton of other products that one could argue should be in there, like Roland's VG-8, but that didn't really change the trajectory of the industry, as guitar modeling hasn't really caught on. (Otherwise, I would've also added Variax.) Same with all the guitar synth-based stuff out there. Helix certainly informed how multieffects should look and operate for <cough> many other companies, but that's not really an industry trajectory change either. And Roland/BOSS also deserves a ton of credit here, although I didn't bother going back and mapping out all their early digital pedal designs.
 
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Digital Igloo said:
If I were researching for a term paper, I could probably find hundreds of revolutionary MI products. The biggest ones in my lifetime are probably the Korg M1, Digidesign's Sound Designer, and the Alesis ADAT. However, if we limit the discussion to modern-ish digital guitar technology, my bias is really gonna show, but I'll explain my reasoning, so buckle up.

Not a fan of the term "revolutionary" (and don't get me started on how much I loathe "gamechanger") but IF one were to define revolutionary as:
  1. Something that hadn't really existed in this space before, AND
  2. Its functionality is now (or is quickly becoming) widespread across the industry, even if it was largely ignored at the time...
...I gotta say, Line 6 has been smack dab in the middle of it all. NOTE: for a product to be revolutionary, it doesn't necessarily need to be popular. Or even good.

In order of release:
  • Roland GP-100 (1995)—The very first product with digital amp modeling technology
  • Line 6 AxSys (1996)—First digital modeling amp, came out a few months after the GP-100
  • Line 6 POD (1998)—Obvious
  • Line 6 Amp Farm (1998)—The first instrument-centric signal processing software. Also, I believe, the first skeuomorphic plugin design. If not the first, one of the very first desktop-based emulations of any type of hardware
  • Line 6 DL4 (1999)—Ushered in a host of sophisticated multi-model digital pedals, changed what pedals could be
  • Line 6 GuitarPort (2002) —First online tone and lesson library, complete with commercially licensed songs. Also first subscription-based model in this space
  • Line 6 Spider (2002?)—For better or worse, ushered in a host of affordable digital practice amps. Later versions started the whole "sharing content online" thing
  • Fractal Axe FX (2006)—Proved that high-end, no-holds-barred guitar-centric DSP could be successful. Also, IRs
  • X2 Wireless (2007)—Very first digital instrument wireless, now we're inundated with dozens of $39 guitar wireless systems
  • Line 6 MIDI Mobilizer (2010)—Very first MI accessory for a smartphone/tablet
  • Kemper Profiler (2012)—Very first amp capture technology
  • Line 6 AMPLFi (2014)—Very first guitar product with mobile, wireless editing and realtime, online, crowdsourced content. One day I'll tell the whole story, and it's a doozy.
Now there are a ton of other products that one could argue should be in there, like Roland's VG-8, but that didn't really change the trajectory of the industry, as guitar modeling hasn't really caught on. (Otherwise, I would've also added Variax.) Same with all the guitar synth-based stuff out there. Helix certainly informed how multieffects should look and operate for <cough> many other companies, but that's not really an industry trajectory change either. And Roland/BOSS also deserves a ton of credit here, although I didn't bother going back and mapping out all their early digital pedal designs.
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I still reckon the Yamaha DG stuff in around 1997-1998 was also quite significant, even if it never enjoyed wider appeal. The motorized knobs and having what is still the best marriage of digital and traditional amp functionality IMO. I felt that soundwise nothing could touch them for digital modeling until Vox released the first Valvetronix amp in 2001 which used a unique "Valve Reactor" circuit to simulate a tube power section. Everything Line6 did around that time was IMO subpar sounding in comparison - but also cheaper.

The Yamaha UD Stomp (2002) used by Allan Holdsworth was also ahead of its time, I don't remember there being anything that had as complex delay stuff.

Yamaha just did an absolutely terrible job at marketing their gear (and still do), plus they were expensive. They had "fine wine" style ads right next to Line6's aggressive "hey dude, this thing has all the distortion!" ads in guitar magazines. It only got worse with the Spider series but clearly was a tactic that worked for Line6.

ud_stomp.jpg
yamaha-dg80-combo-amp-1.jpg
 
laxu said:
I still reckon the Yamaha DG stuff in around 1997-1998 was also quite significant, even if it never enjoyed wider appeal.
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Hundreds of amazing products weren't included in my list only because they didn't fit my two (admittedly narrow) criteria for "revolutionary."

Outside the modern-ish digital guitar technology space, Yamaha's had tons of revolutionary products: DX7, DMP7, VP1, ProMix 01, O2R...
 
laxu said:
I still reckon the Yamaha DG stuff in around 1997-1998 was also quite significant, even if it never enjoyed wider appeal. The motorized knobs and having what is still the best marriage of digital and traditional amp functionality IMO. I felt that soundwise nothing could touch them for digital modeling until Vox released the first Valvetronix amp in 2001 which used a unique "Valve Reactor" circuit to simulate a tube power section. Everything Line6 did around that time was IMO subpar sounding in comparison - but also cheaper.

The Yamaha UD Stomp (2002) used by Allan Holdsworth was also ahead of its time, I don't remember there being anything that had as complex delay stuff.

Yamaha just did an absolutely terrible job at marketing their gear (and still do), plus they were expensive. They had "fine wine" style ads right next to Line6's aggressive "hey dude, this thing has all the distortion!" ads in guitar magazines. It only got worse with the Spider series but clearly was a tactic that worked for Line6.

ud_stomp.jpg
yamaha-dg80-combo-amp-1.jpg
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I would 100% agree on the Vox Valvetronix and how they implemented the 12ax7 to create a power amp type response
that to me was groundbreaking at the time in terms of feel and tones. I used my Tonelab US high gain setting on many recordings and the AC30of course was awesome as well, it was ahead of its time
 
Boudoir Guitar said:
Does the Headrush Prime annoy you less or more than the original Headrush pedalboard since this new design borrows pretty heavily from the Boss GT1000 aesthetically?
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AFAIK, the chassis and UI layout is identical to that of the original Pedalboard, except with chunkier side panels to (presumably) accommodate the WiFi antennas. (WiFi doesn't work well through metal.) And the I/O board's jacks have been scrunched together so they can, again presumably, reuse it in a smaller form factor.

There are a lot of really cool new things in Prime, and I'm surprised they didn't implement them sooner, given that InMusic has IP from Akai MPCs and the like. We knew it was just a matter of time. If you want to predict the future of Headrush hardware, just look at InMusic's other products.
 
Digital Igloo said:
AFAIK, the chassis and UI layout is identical to that of the original Pedalboard, except with chunkier side panels to (presumably) accommodate the WiFi antennas. (WiFi doesn't work well through metal.) And the I/O board's jacks have been scrunched together so they can, again presumably, reuse it in a smaller form factor.

There are a lot of really cool new things in Prime, and I'm surprised they didn't implement them sooner, given that InMusic has IP from Akai MPCs and the like. We knew it was just a matter of time. If you want to predict the future of Headrush hardware, just look at InMusic's other products.
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Wow that really cool that you can see the smaller form factor likely coming down the pipe just from how the I/0 boards are laid out
 
GTR37 said:
Wow that really cool that you can see the smaller form factor likely coming down the pipe just from how the I/0 boards are laid out
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Don't know for sure. InMusic could also just be trying to condense their board space to save a few bucks (although stacked jacks are more expensive, have a harder time passing compliance, and sometimes result in worse signal-to-noise specs). But reusing boards is something we would do, so...
 
Sascha Franck said:
Sorry, but that's all Boss territory. Look at the GT-10. Functionally, that's a Helix.
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Sheesh Sascha, does playing constant contrarian ever get tiring?

In the very post you quoted, I was clearly explaining why Helix did NOT make my list of revolutionary products. And the very next sentence was "And Roland/BOSS also deserves a ton of credit here, although I didn't bother going back and mapping out all their early digital pedal designs."
 
Fwiw, Roland released their GS-6 (which I even bought) in 1989. Which was pretty much a digital modeling amp (in a way, even their GP-16 could be called a modeler, but it didn't have a dedicated amp section). Around the same time the Zoom 9002 came out (I only owned the 9000 - which came out later, for whatever reasons...), which could be called a sort of amp modeler, too.
 
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