Dave Friedman on Digital Modelers

[la szum]

Yeah I agree with him 100% about tube amps vs modelers. That said I do like the model of his amp in the Helix. Funny enough I don’t care for Dave’s amps except I thought the Smallbox sound pretty cool but not cool enough for me to buy it. Weird he is such a Marshall fan but his amps really don’t sound like old school Marshall’s and are a bit dull, compressed in the dynamics dept.

I agree. Which is weird since that is his thing--Marhalls. I have never been able to comprehend it.

He's even said he has an old 50W Plexi that was the basis/starting point for all of the amps he has made.

Maybe it's a dud.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

He also hinted at a future Friedman Modeler.

hmm I interpreted it as more like a poweramp to make modellers feel better, as he said “Maybe there’ll be something in the future from Friedman that solves this issue”. I think designing a poweramp matches his skill set much better than making a digital emulation, but who knows.

I’ve matched my BE100 with various emulations (coincidently, again today even) and it’s dead easy. The only way I can imagine him thinking its not right is when playing it through a cab, which kind of makes sense….. so many variables and the poweramp+cab is where so much of the feel is

 

[TubeStack]

He was specifically asked about the Fractal models of Friedman amps. He also hinted at a future Friedman Modeler.

Could have also been a hint at a Friedman power amp? He said ”maybe there will be something from Friedman in the future that'll solve this issue… maybe.”

Or it could have been nothing, or a joke.

 

[TubeStack]

hmm I interpreted it as more like a poweramp to make modellers feel better, as he said “Maybe there’ll be something in the future from Friedman that solves this issue”. I think designing a poweramp matches his skill set much better than making a digital emulation, but who knows.

I’ve matched my BE100 with various emulations (coincidently, again today even) and it’s dead easy. The only way I can imagine him thinking its not right is when playing it through a cab, which kind of makes sense….. so many variables and the poweramp+cab is where so much of the feel is

Ha, we posted the same thing at the exact same time.

 

[Bruce]

hmm I interpreted it as more like a poweramp to make modellers feel better, as he said “Maybe there’ll be something in the future from Friedman that solves this issue”. I think designing a poweramp matches his skill set much better than making a digital emulation, but who knows.

I’ve matched my BE100 with various emulations (coincidently, again today even) and it’s dead easy. The only way I can imagine him thinking its not right is when playing it through a cab, which kind of makes sense….. so many variables and the poweramp+cab is where so much of the feel is

I’ve thoroughly recorded my BE100 vs the Fractal models and confused the tracks a few times. They’re too close to matter.

Live in a room playing will always come down to monitoring, no matter a real amp or a modeler. If you have great monitoring smacking you in the face with decent volume, the experience should be pretty close to a real amp. I distinctly remember plenty of real amps blowing past my knees sounding like ass because of how everything was set up, often out of my control. Real amps are by no means be all end all superior to modeling and possess a fair amount of drawbacks, too.

If Dave made a power amp for modelers, I’m sure it would be good. I couldn’t see him making a Modeler, though. He’s already licensed so many companies to do it, already. From UA to Fractal to god knows how many others, they flat out use the Friedman name so he must get something out of that. It’s been done to death at this point.

 

[GTR37]

I am not one that big on the VS tests but Justin York just posted a clip switching back and forth between a Soldano Avenger miced w a57 ( no load box that the purists complain about ) against a Fractal SLO w matching impedance curve and IR of a similar recto cab
And quite frankly it was bloody close

 

[la szum]

hmm I interpreted it as more like a poweramp to make modellers feel better, as he said “Maybe there’ll be something in the future from Friedman that solves this issue”. I think designing a poweramp matches his skill set much better than making a digital emulation, but who knows.

I’ve matched my BE100 with various emulations (coincidently, again today even) and it’s dead easy. The only way I can imagine him thinking its not right is when playing it through a cab, which kind of makes sense….. so many variables and the poweramp+cab is where so much of the feel is

Ahhhhh.... perhaps you interpreted that clue better than I did.

I agree that Power + Monitoring are the biggest variables in how modelers both sound and
feel. Those are also the 2 instrumental variables that are talked about the least (or not at all)
when it comes to comparing modelers to actual amps.

 

[Mongillo19]

I am not one that big on the VS tests but Justin York just posted a clip switching back and forth between a Soldano Avenger miced w a57 ( no load box that the purists complain about ) against a Fractal SLO w matching impedance curve and IR of a similar recto cab
And quite frankly it was bloody close

I think they were emphasizing on the "power" and live use vs studio

 

[GTR37]

I think they were emphasizing on the "power" and live use vs studio

Yea if you want the amp in the room but if you are listening to in ears
Or through a PA I think the Axe matches it now
They just picked up endorsements from Aerosmith and Muse that big
Kudos

 

[Mongillo19]

Yea if you want the amp in the room but if you are listening to in ears
Or through a PA I think the Axe matches it now
They just picked up endorsements from Aerosmith and Muse that big
Kudos

Oh for sure. I will say a good chunk of FAS artists seem to use it for effects but the newer ones seem to be using the modeling as well which is neat

 

[PLX]

 

[SeeD]

 

[Orvillain]

I don't know about his claim of the Fractal models, but generally the conversation, I agree with.

There have been few times when I've played a modeller in-situ with the band and come away happy. It usually always sounds and feelzzz like a compromise.

 

[James Freeman]

so many variables and the poweramp+cab is where so much of the feel is

This.
Transformer coupling, low damping factor, non-static cab impedance... all dynamically interacting with each other as you play.
Very hard to emulate unless you tap/measure the cab signal in real time as you play and "fix" the signal so the cab behaves like it is driven by a tube amp while actually driven by a very stiff solid state hifi power amp.
Requires some research and very clever real time signal processing but doable.

 

[Deadpan]

Hmmm… so do you guys think he’s serious?

Dave has been the master of misdirection lately.

 

[jay mitchell]

I do. I don't think he says things just to say them. And he already designed and makes Powered Speakers,
for guess what, Modelers and Profilers.

Uhh, no. He didn't design a powered speaker, and there is no evidence that he has that capability. He's rebranded powered speakers that were already being made and sold (as B-52) and charged substantially more money for them. FYI, that's not the same thing.

The linked segment of the video is just inflammatory crap from a person with skin in the game and should be considered in that light.

 

[Bruce]

This.
Transformer coupling, low damping factor, non-static cab impedance... all dynamically interacting with each other as you play.
Very hard to emulate unless you tap/measure the cab signal in real time as you play and "fix" the signal so the cab behaves like it is driven by a tube amp while actually driven by a very stiff solid state hifi power amp.
Requires some research and very clever real time signal processing but doable.

FAS has a lot of these parameters adjustable. I admit to a lot of it going over my head. I never cared much down to the component level what’s in an amp for the most part but in the fractal stuff you can swap out and tweak an awful lot of things.

 

[Bruce]

Uhh, no. He didn't design a powered speaker, and there is no evidence that he has that capability. He's rebranded powered speakers that were already being made and sold (as B-52) and charged substantially more money for them. FYI, that's not the same thing.

The linked segment of the video is just inflammatory crap from a person with skin in the game and should be considered in that light.

Of course. He’s in the business of selling outdated tech. I’m sure carburetor manufacturers demonized fuel injection and stable hands demonized automobiles, too. I love a good tube amp as much as the next guy but I predict these dinosaurs won’t be around forever.

 

[JT]

Uhh, no. He didn't design a powered speaker, and there is no evidence that he has that capability. He's rebranded powered speakers that were already being made and sold (as B-52) and charged substantially more money for them. FYI, that's not the same thing.

The linked segment of the video is just inflammatory crap from a person with skin in the game and should be considered in that light.

I forgot about the B-52 rebranding. Add it to the list of grievances!

 

[Bruce]

I forgot about the B-52 rebranding. Add it to the list of grievances!

I didn’t even know that, myself. Not the first or last time we’ve seen that.