L
likitlikeyoulikeit
Guest
Metal was born from Laney.....sorry. 
Can Gear Make You A Better Player?
- Thread starter TSJMajesty
- Start date
Birmingham didn't have many amp makers gifting custom builds at that time, methinks. But did the gear make Iommi and/or Sabbath "better"? Rangemaster as well... I grew up on Master of Reality tones, but Laney amps are hard to get in my town atm.Metal was born from Laney.....sorry.
These days Sabbath are crowned as THE pioneers of Metal, but when I was a kid in the 70's it was the big 3 - Zep, Purple and Sabbath, then Lizzy and Priest etc.
The point remains that without the tech the guitar sounds different. Lord of this World on a clean amp/channel... why bother?
L
likitlikeyoulikeit
Guest
Lyndon Laney was Toni Iommi's friend.
He actually played in a band with him, pre Sabbath.
Some of his first amps were built specifically for him ...with distortion as a design goal....thus metal tone....intended.
He also put that rangemaster circuit in a Laney...for him. The KLIPP circuit.
Toni has always credited Laney for his sound.
Lyndon never gets the respect that many others do....his work and innovation made players sound better... therefore they played better.
Not sure if this was known or not.
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Quite so. It's just that at the time, Sabbath were not considered the only Metal band the way they are credited with the invention of Metal today. Zep already had a couple of albums (and Beck considered their sound a rip-off of his), Purple had In Rock, and all credited Cream and Hendrix.
The tech remains important to the sound produced by it.
L
likitlikeyoulikeit
Guest
I can't say I suppose...as i was not around back then. I don't consider either DP or LZ metal...but, I can see how they could be seen that way. Nothing against them, obviously, just not metal....to me. I am younger.....and less experienced.
Also...Laney made the PA for Led Zeppelin when they toured America for the first time.
It's an age thing. Look up Heavy Metal online and you often see that In Rock, Zep II and Black Sabbath were considered front-runners, but also influenced by others including Steppenwolf and Iron Butterfly.
Folk into Bathory, Darkthrone let alone Ulcerate may find it hard to see Purple as Metal.
Jim Marshall and Lyndon Laney were very influential in the sounds people made from the mid-60's on, as were the makers of Fuzz Faces.
I'm so old I remember when TubeScreamers were the latest inventive sound - and when the Boss Chorus ruled the radio in the 80's.
Folk into Bathory, Darkthrone let alone Ulcerate may find it hard to see Purple as Metal.
Jim Marshall and Lyndon Laney were very influential in the sounds people made from the mid-60's on, as were the makers of Fuzz Faces.
I'm so old I remember when TubeScreamers were the latest inventive sound - and when the Boss Chorus ruled the radio in the 80's.
L
likitlikeyoulikeit
Guest
I remember that stuff too. I'm not that young!I'm so old I remember when TubeScreamers were the latest inventive sound - and when the Boss Chorus ruled the radio in the 80's.
L
likitlikeyoulikeit
Guest
crustycabs
Newbie
- Messages
- 19
I gigged with a 2 6V6 Laney head in concert with a Crate V32 head thru the same 1X12 cab using a switcher. It was a killer setup, That Laney did AC/DC like you never heard, and the Crate was great for the jangly clean tones. Plus the sound guy loved me cuz I was able to get killer tone at mic-able levels.
IME, undeniably and in many ways. For example...
I started out with a DIY distortion and the one built-in into my Roland Cube 60. Pretty shitty circuits and I never had the more dynamic pedals or modelers of nowadays before the Axe-Fx. So what I wondered about forever is how you can have some notes sound driven, and (power) chords to not be that saturated and have note separation.
Maybe a good example is Hold the Line where I want the single lines (verses) to be somewhat driven/saturated but I don't want the power chords to be that saturated. So I would be thinking if I should make a pedal control the drive and why the pros didn't seem to need that??
IOW, a lot of time is lost when not knowing how a tube amp (at volume) plays... Same for legato that can come "so easy" at the right settings/volume and you have no idea how they are doing that when you're young on shitty gear...
"On one hand" (LOL) I guess it develops your muscles and only much later you discover that in a sense you don't necessarily need such powers...
It took me too much time to notice many pros are hardly touching the strings (and why), and that I was playing too tensely.
When you then finally experience a great amp (model), you can put those muscles to better use and almost instantly become better.
Another effect that I was clueless about in my youth was a compressor. This too can make you sound pro with less muscle effort. Not knowing that just wastes time worrying how bad you are. Knowing the right tools will give you more confidence.
--
A perfect neck and perfectly set up guitar is a HUGE difference to what I started out with... (not that I have any of these, but I have clues now and have felt what a difference tiny adjustments can make)
--
A "funny experience" I had a few days ago when exploring Axe-Fx presets was a preset that somehow improved my vibrato (which is hugely important to me). There are situations/presets where your slightest finger movement is tracked, which can be bad if you don't have the perfect vibrato in that moment. That one preset seemed to somehow correct it or make me move differently (or were the delays hiding what was really happening?).
--
Strings are gear too. I'm discovering a little late that I have probably always fought strings that are too heavy for me, which can hurt my vibrato. I discovered that I ideally want to be tuned to Eb on a short scale neck, or in other cases should try a 008/0085 set. It makes beautiful vibrato much easier and is also the only way I can do easy first-finger bends and am not fearing certain other bends. Luckily I'm not one that feels you should play 010 sets. I suspect I will be much better with 008. (I actually caught on 30 years ago but never acted on it...)
--
Crazy good sound may not make you better so much, but you and others may perceive you to be to a worthwhile extent.
--
OTOH, little or nothing from all of this helps my bad pocket...
I started out with a DIY distortion and the one built-in into my Roland Cube 60. Pretty shitty circuits and I never had the more dynamic pedals or modelers of nowadays before the Axe-Fx. So what I wondered about forever is how you can have some notes sound driven, and (power) chords to not be that saturated and have note separation.
Maybe a good example is Hold the Line where I want the single lines (verses) to be somewhat driven/saturated but I don't want the power chords to be that saturated. So I would be thinking if I should make a pedal control the drive and why the pros didn't seem to need that??
IOW, a lot of time is lost when not knowing how a tube amp (at volume) plays... Same for legato that can come "so easy" at the right settings/volume and you have no idea how they are doing that when you're young on shitty gear...
"On one hand" (LOL) I guess it develops your muscles and only much later you discover that in a sense you don't necessarily need such powers...
It took me too much time to notice many pros are hardly touching the strings (and why), and that I was playing too tensely.
When you then finally experience a great amp (model), you can put those muscles to better use and almost instantly become better.
Another effect that I was clueless about in my youth was a compressor. This too can make you sound pro with less muscle effort. Not knowing that just wastes time worrying how bad you are. Knowing the right tools will give you more confidence.
--
A perfect neck and perfectly set up guitar is a HUGE difference to what I started out with... (not that I have any of these, but I have clues now and have felt what a difference tiny adjustments can make)
--
A "funny experience" I had a few days ago when exploring Axe-Fx presets was a preset that somehow improved my vibrato (which is hugely important to me). There are situations/presets where your slightest finger movement is tracked, which can be bad if you don't have the perfect vibrato in that moment. That one preset seemed to somehow correct it or make me move differently (or were the delays hiding what was really happening?).
--
Strings are gear too. I'm discovering a little late that I have probably always fought strings that are too heavy for me, which can hurt my vibrato. I discovered that I ideally want to be tuned to Eb on a short scale neck, or in other cases should try a 008/0085 set. It makes beautiful vibrato much easier and is also the only way I can do easy first-finger bends and am not fearing certain other bends. Luckily I'm not one that feels you should play 010 sets. I suspect I will be much better with 008. (I actually caught on 30 years ago but never acted on it...)
--
Crazy good sound may not make you better so much, but you and others may perceive you to be to a worthwhile extent.
--
OTOH, little or nothing from all of this helps my bad pocket...
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TSJMajesty
Rock Star
- Messages
- 5,853
I was just mentioning compression in another thread. Makes a huge difference in playing a difficult legato solo.
I will however, practice (that solo I'm thinking of) using a clean tone, to help me keep up my pinky strength, because I believe having strong finger muscles are also very important, and only relying on compression will ultimately act as an enabler. Good playing starts with good technique. But good gear sure does help as well!
I think I just read that, re. not having to overcompensate -- probably a great and recognizable point for me.
I used to think my straining was a good thing, allowing me to have every millisecond of my output under tight control. Now I'm more interested in the opposite and hardy touching the strings, so to speak. And the Axe enables that.
- Messages
- 1,642
Not sure, but I do know that using a Rangemaster clone (like the Catalinbread Naga Viper) with my 68 Plexi circuit makes me sound like 80's Iommi.
- Messages
- 2,331
If you don't have any gear you can't play a damn thing, let alone improve and get "better."
