Calibrating Input Level for Plugins

[James Freeman]

More to add, this time from Audiority & Polychrome DSP. Audiority do some great pedal and fx emulations as well as some solid state amps you don’t usually see modelled:

1Vp=0dBFS

Keep it up MirrorProfiles!
Can you spam Softube next please?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Keep it up MirrorProfiles!
Can you spam Softube next please?

I've spoken to them on support, and also a Zoom call where they'd gone out of their way in advance and reached out to the devs and told me 3V=0dBFS. Their support is REALLY helpful and quick to reply but I don't want to drive them nuts, so it might be better if someone else can give them a nudge.

The problem is, for the Marshall plugins, 1V=0dBFS seems to be closer. I need to spend a bit more time with Amp Room to see if other plugins are at 3V=0dBFS. It would have made sense for them to use the UAD input headroom as a reference because a lot of their Marshall amps started off as UAD exclusives (with the purpose being real time/low latency recording).

If someone else fancies reaching out and asking, it would be appreciated. I'd like a bit more clarification if possible.

Besides IK (and clarifying Softube), I would really love to have more information about Nembrini's levels. I've asked Igor twice and got this reply (I can't not read it in an Italian accent):

I suggest adjusting the plugin INPUT parameter level keeping the input meter green in case of single coil or green/yellow for the humbucker this is pretty muck the level used to modeling, but in some case with single coil I like to push the level little bit because is like having before the amp a linear booster or reduce in case very hot pickup......there is no a real rule

So I'm not really optimistic of getting much more information, annoying because a lot of his plugins are very good (for Plugin Alliance and Nembrini).

 

[eggpl@nt]

Helix Floor with 500mV RMS opens at -15.3dB as measured in the first post, supposedly Floor and Rack have the exact same hardware.
Do you have the Pad enabled by any change?

I do have the pad engaged. I got some hot pickups.

 

[James Freeman]

I do have the pad engaged. I got some hot pickups.

If you want correct gain from the models you have to compensate for the Pad.
The pad attenuates by exactly 5.5dB on Helix Floor.

 

[eggpl@nt]

If you want correct gain from the models you have to compensate for the Pad.

Within Rack, Native, or both? Do I just need to bump the gain by 5.5dB on the slider or with a gain block?

 

[James Freeman]

Unfortunately there is no input level on the hardware input 'circle', so you have to compensate with a gain block.
You didn't say if you are using the HX hardware as the interface for Native, if so you can boost the input in Native but not if you already boosted on hardware.
The Pad cuts 5.5dB at the ADC stage, you have to boost it back before the models.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Helix needs a gain compensated pad, like, yesterday. Dead simple to have as a preference. IMO it’s mostly more useful to have it compensated than not, but I can understand why both options are valid.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

new plugins coming out faster than I can keep up with, and same old lack of information (and limited manuals). Modern high gain amp that most people have never played or heard (in person) or used before.



compared to





Sounds like Jon's input level is maybe too low. Its a cool sounding demo but cant really compare it to the amp when its not like for like.

 

[StratsoundFan]

"For the best performance set your audio device’s input gain so that TONEX’s INPUT LEVEL meter is starting to go into the red, then back off a touch."

This is from the Tonex user manual. I can't imagine a single capture sounding good under these circumstances.

 

[quadgear]

Also, choosing UAD Apollo and Focusrite Scarlett as their reference interfaces was a very good move.

Can we assume other interfaces, especially the Moto M series, are similar?

 

[Orvillain]

Can we assume other interfaces, especially the Moto M series, are similar?

No, you need to check your interfaces manuals/tech specs for this information.

Looking at the Motu M series manual, they are 16dBu:

https://cdn-data.motu.com/manuals/usb-c-audio/M_Series_User_Guide.pdf

 

[eggpl@nt]

Can we assume other interfaces, especially the Moto M series, are similar?

I posted my Motu M4 results on the previous page:

• -14.4dB hits 500mVRMS
• I have the pad engaged, so my Helix responded to 500mVRS at -20.5dB; otherwise, the value is -15.3dB, per James
• From there, Native was pretty much perfectly on the money, except I have to add 5.5dB at the input to account for the pad

 

[James Freeman]

From there, Native was pretty much perfectly on the money,

How do you connect your Helix to the Motu M4?

 

[James Freeman]

new plugins coming out faster than I can keep up with

Calibration aside, I'm getting really tired of seeing the same advertiser faces on every product.
Not only I'm not clicking that, I'm actively removing it from my browsing experience.

 

[eggpl@nt]

How do you connect your Helix to the Motu M4?

When testing…
Output 3 to Instrument Input with Rack
Output 3 to Input 1 (M4) with Native

I just do guitar to Input 1 when actually playing Native.

 

[James Freeman]

When testing…
Output 3 to Instrument Input with Rack
Output 3 to Input 1 (M4) with Native

I just do guitar to Input 1 when actually playing Native.

So, why didn't you just loopback from Output 3 to Input 1 (M4)?
What was the point of measuring with the Rack inline at all?
Also, the Motu M4 has 16dBu of headroom for the instrument input, how did you get a perfect match with and without the Rack without changing anything?

I'm asking questions because something doesn't seem right with your Motu M4 results.

 

[eggpl@nt]

So, why didn't you just loopback from Output 3 to Input 1 (M4)?
What was the point of measuring with the Rack inline at all?
Also, the Motu M4 has 16dBu of headroom for the instrument input, how did you get a perfect match with and without the Rack without changing anything?

I'm asking questions because something doesn't seem right with your Motu M4 results.

That’s precisely what I did, but the terminology I used can be confusing, I guess. When I say “Output 3” I am referring to the Motu. So one case connects Motu Out 3 to Rack Instrument Input, then the other is Motu Out 3 to Motu In 1.

With the sine generator set to 0dB output in Logic, the Motu outputs 10.6dBu (2.626VRMS). I have to bump the output of the signal generator above 0dB to hit 16dBu. I’m not positive why that is—perhaps that’s where I went wrong.

 

[Whizzinby]

I have official confirmation from Neural DSP that their plugins are made with this reference:

1 Vp = 0.707 VRMS = -0.79 dBu equals -13 dBFS in the digital domain

Which means on my 11.4dBu input, I have to lower the level by 0.8dB. If I use my 12.2dBu UAD Apollo input with gain at 0, its perfect (almost like they did it on purpose ).

It took a few goes for me to reach the right person at Neural DSP, but I essentially got a perfectly written response within a few hours of reaching out.

So my input gain needs to be at -13.1 dBFS using the Scarlett 2i2 with their plugs.

How do I find that level? The 2i2 does the colored ring thing on its input gain knob, and on the plugs they have a similar colored line indicator. (Which sucks because they use a grey to darker grey input gain visualizer)

Is there somewhere you are actually supposed to key these values in, or are you monitoring it with some else?

 

[Gearzilla]

KVR Forum: Input Voltage/Gain Calibration for Guitar Plugins - Effects Forum

KVR Audio Forum - Input Voltage/Gain Calibration for Guitar Plugins - Effects Forum

www.kvraudio.com

Whatever is old is new again.

^ April 2017

 

[MirrorProfiles]

So my input gain needs to be at -13.1 dBFS using the Scarlett 2i2 with their plugs.

How do I find that level? The 2i2 does the colored ring thing on its input gain knob, and on the plugs they have a similar colored line indicator. (Which sucks because they use a grey to darker grey input gain visualizer)

Is there somewhere you are actually supposed to key these values in, or are you monitoring it with some else?

Is yours a gen 3 Scarlett?

If so, just set your instrument gain to 0 and you're pretty much set. Or boost by 0.3dB and you are dead in line with Neural DSP's calibration.

-13dBFS refers to what level a 1Vp AC sine wave corresponds to in their converters. So if you run a 1Vp (0.707V RMS) sine wave into your input, however much you need to adjust to reach -13dBFS is what you need to adjust the NDSP input by.