Amps question/complaint

[Baba]

Spurred by a PM, but why the fuck IS it that most amps (still to this day), give you modes/options that you cannot get to with a footswitch or midi? I know that:

1. Not everyone plays live, or NEEDS that, especially if you're recording one track at a time.
2. There are plenty of amps that DO, and I've had them, (Marshall DSL, most Hughes and Kettner offerings, and the like).

Is it simply a cost thing?

This came from a discussion about the PRS MT-15 v2, and while I think of it, another amp I simply cannot use to it's potential, the 5150 Iconic. Don't even get me started on Mesa/Boogie, although I haven't paid much attention to them, maybe it's different these days.

In the case of the Iconic, it actually has a really nice sounding clean mode AND crunch mode, on channel 1, but the ONLY way to use both, is by pressing a button. The DSL rectified this with midi, but EVH? Nope. Sorry. Too bad. Pick one, not both.

 

[Orvillain]

I think that it's really difficult to fit that many relays into a box, and I don't think many micro controllers are up to the task of pushing the kinds of voltages inside an amp around, in order to simplify and digitize the switching technology.

 

[Baba]

I think that it's really difficult to fit that many relays into a box, and I don't think many micro controllers are up to the task of pushing the kinds of voltages inside an amp around, in order to simplify and digitize the switching technology.

So, I know absolutely nothing about that, but, for example, the Hughes and Kettner Grandmeister Deluxe 40 crams an awful lot into a very small box, including effects, so . . .

The DSL solved this with midi or their footswitch. That's what I'm talking about. A LOT more amps should be like the DSL.

 

[Chocol8]

As a counter point, I do not need the switching capability, and I avoid it like the plague.

1) For playing reasons, I prefer to keep the amp tone simple, and not change it song to song or within a song. Pedals give more than enough variation.

2) I want my tube amps simple for reliability and easy repair when needed. No stacks of PCB boards that need to come out for simple maintenance, and no banks of relays that can and do fail. The inside of a tube amp is a hot inhospitable place, so keep it simple, repairable, and minimize the components.

 

[Tenebris]

multifunction footswitches and their cords also become a giant point of failure that can impact lots of different use cases, compared to (for example) a toggle switch on the back of the amp that changes between two or three modes. and if a switch is going to cause a big volume change or require like 90 per cent of players to redial the amp, you may as well put it somewhere it's not going to get hit accidentally.

 

[laxu]

As stupid as it is, many amps still use "one function per cable" 7-8 pin DIN jacks instead of MIDI. I don't understand why, to me it makes zero sense and can't be any real cost thing either. MIDI would be much more suited for complex switching. So that already limits what can be footswitched.

Then we have preamps. These might be done as "crunch channel adds an extra gain stage, lead channel adds a further gain stage" or as fully discrete preamps like each channel on a Mesa Mark V for example. This can then lead to some compromises like your two favorite modes being on the same channel and thus not footswitchable. But these would not make sense to footswitch since you have to reconfigure the whole channel for a good sound.

Then there's features that don't make a whole lot of sense to footswitch. Like most of the time there's not much benefit to having footswitchable power scaling due to volume differences. You might also run into issues like a popping sound when that feature is switched, which you don't want to happen going into e.g your solo sound.

The H&K Grandmeister stuff seems to be extremely complicated with lots of microcontrollers to handle the ability to save pot settings and whatnot.

 

[Desertdweller]

I think that it's really difficult to fit that many relays into a box, and I don't think many micro controllers are up to the task of pushing the kinds of voltages inside an amp around, in order to simplify and digitize the switching technology.

The JMP1 and Triaxis preamps could do this 30 years ago though. I think @Baba has a good question.

 

[Orvillain]

@santiall in your professional ppinonion??

 

[Frodebro]

I would think that people who are into gear with massive tonal capabilities and switching have probably moved well away from traditional heads or combos and are running racks or digital. Tube amps are carbureted engines in a fuel injected world.

 

[EOengineer]

Just thinking about something like a Mesa Mark V, I would expect footswitching through all those modes would incur volume level mismatches due to gain staging differences, at which point you’re having to add a bunch more volume knobs.

Actually the Mark III is a great example of the perils of that. The rhythm channel was really just another mode, and one that was missing a volume control from the factory. The R2 mod (adding a volume on the back of the amp) is by far the most common mod on that amp. I couldn’t use R2 without it.