Which is worse - limited blocks or limited paths??

[iaresee]

shartblaster SB3000

The influence this pedal has had on modern tones cannot be overstated

 

[Orvillain]

That said, the issue with the channel switching system is that it's not easy to see what is in each channel without toggling to them as they are just generic A-D letters.

Yeah, see it's things like this that Fractal do, that make the eco-system a bit impenetrable and just boring to use. I don't want A/B/C/D. I want to load a Recto, and click a channel switch that jumps between Orange and Red. Then I want to load a JVM, and click each channel button multiple times to switch to it, and then cycle through the modes.

If I am using two amps, then I explicitly want to see at a glance that I actually am. Instead of having to flip through A/B/C/D a bunch of times to remind myself what I chose as my clean versus my crunch versus my high gain versus my solo amp.

A lot of my issues with modellers stem from the fact that I want the experience of using this stuff to be as good as using the real thing. And basically, when it all comes down to it; they're all a compromise. I think NDSP gets the closest.

Fractal has the quality and the breadth of sounds. But the way their products work is very old school, and tech-stack lead; rather than actually being "pre-designed" in a sense. I'm sure they're well aware of the foibles - as they all are I guess.

 

[Jarick]

You all know the deal. Stadium or Helix floor, or any modeller with multiple paths really.... ahhh hit my DSP limit on this path.... need to re-route and move some blocks....

Versus Axe FX ... godamnit... I bought the FM0 and I can only run 2 delay blocks when I want 58!!!!


Which is worse??

For me it's blocks. I could just about always do a single path unless I need to route in something from an effects loop. I don't get the hoopla about parallel effects and never use stereo amps. It's really a nice to have IMO.

I really like the simple in and out path of the Fender TMP. There's no fuss and you just add what you need. I can count on one hand the number of times I needed to change from that and it's mostly just to mess around with stereo amps.

 

[Jarick]

For sure. I always felt a bit bad that I didn't fully utilize what the Axe-Fx 3 could do, and as time went on my presets kept getting more and more simple.

The AM4 is like one block and some Pitch and Multitap block types away from being just right for my uses.
I'm likely going to Japan again next year and picking up a Boss XS-1 is definitely on my list unless something better comes out in the meantime.

I really wanted to grab an AM4 because the new layout is super appealing with the stripped down UI but yeah it's just a bit underpowered. I have the Axe 3 so know it wasn't going to give a proper Fractal experience. At some point you just need to run the dual detune. I'm really curious though where they can go from the AM4. Until then I grabbed an FM9 because more is more...

 

[ian_dissonance]

Block limits for me, I don’t mind moving stuff around if needed. Though I do think that hardware should be able to just push the last thing in the chain to the next available slot if you try to drop in something that won’t fit DSP-wise. Or at least an option for automatic DSP management that can be turn on or off.

 

[Jarick]

Yeah, see it's things like this that Fractal do, that make the eco-system a bit impenetrable and just boring to use. I don't want A/B/C/D. I want to load a Recto, and click a channel switch that jumps between Orange and Red. Then I want to load a JVM, and click each channel button multiple times to switch to it, and then cycle through the modes.

If I am using two amps, then I explicitly want to see at a glance that I actually am. Instead of having to flip through A/B/C/D a bunch of times to remind myself what I chose as my clean versus my crunch versus my high gain versus my solo amp.

A lot of my issues with modellers stem from the fact that I want the experience of using this stuff to be as good as using the real thing. And basically, when it all comes down to it; they're all a compromise. I think NDSP gets the closest.

Fractal has the quality and the breadth of sounds. But the way their products work is very old school, and tech-stack lead; rather than actually being "pre-designed" in a sense. I'm sure they're well aware of the foibles - as they all are I guess.

Did you ever try a Fender TMP? Being able to see at a glance everything in the preset is super cool. The tone and options could be a bit limited but love the visual approach.

From a preset building standpoint the Fractal blocks are incredible, especially when they removed the audio gap for amps. But you are right, you really need to build them out in the editor and then program it all for scenes optimally.

It would be awesome to have some way at a glance to see the block types or names on the QC as an option.

 

[laxu]

Yeah, see it's things like this that Fractal do, that make the eco-system a bit impenetrable and just boring to use. I don't want A/B/C/D. I want to load a Recto, and click a channel switch that jumps between Orange and Red. Then I want to load a JVM, and click each channel button multiple times to switch to it, and then cycle through the modes.

Yeah I get that. The AM4 is a good improvement in this regard when it can cram the modes under an option rather than having them as separate models. I hope next gen finally gets rid of the separate channel/mode models.

If I am using two amps, then I explicitly want to see at a glance that I actually am. Instead of having to flip through A/B/C/D a bunch of times to remind myself what I chose as my clean versus my crunch versus my high gain versus my solo amp.

I think the dual amps only matters if you are running things in parallel, but if you are just switching between them they can be in one block. Fractal just needs to do a better job at representing them so you can see what is going on.

A lot of my issues with modellers stem from the fact that I want the experience of using this stuff to be as good as using the real thing. And basically, when it all comes down to it; they're all a compromise. I think NDSP gets the closest.

I liked the QC's UI a lot for this, but don't like the NDSP plugins because I have to be jumping between amp - cab - fx pages.
Still, QC's UI also does a bad job at showing what those different amps are. Especially with multiple captures it gets even worse when you have a bunch of the exact same icon in there. Now instead of ABCD you have to remember which of the identical icons was this and that capture.

Fractal has the quality and the breadth of sounds. But the way their products work is very old school, and tech-stack lead; rather than actually being "pre-designed" in a sense. I'm sure they're well aware of the foibles - as they all are I guess.

Absolutely. So much of the UI stuff is made from a "this is how it was easiest to implement technically" POV over "this is how it is easiest for the user to operate". The AM4 is again a good step forward because at least it takes away that pain in the ass grid system.

 

[Orvillain]

I have to be jumping between amp - cab - fx pages.

I'm totally fine with it. I have to do it in the real world too.

 

[tekbow]

This is why I chose the GT1000 Core over most everything else.

I dont really use the models, just the FX and it can practical behave like a mini line mixer if set up right.

 

[Vic Winters]

I can speak to both. Overnight, HX Stomp went from 6 block locations to... 8 block locations plus a bunch of Poly Pitch algorithms.

Any chance it could get a 4th snapshot overnight?

 

[metropolis_4]

Neither is good, but what’s far worse than either for me is limited footswitch control.

All the blocks and paths mean nothing if I can’t control what I need live

 

[AlbertA]

Paths for sure.

For me nothing comes close to the Fractal grid system yet - its flexibility combined with modifiers allow a lot of creativity.

 

[kvik]

I have the Axe-FX III Turbo and I'm not limited by either paths or blocks.

"Qu'ils mangent de la brioche"
-- Cliff, probably

 

[[Nathan]]

Limited blocks is better imo

 

[nicolasrivera]

Versus Axe FX ... godamnit... I bought the FM0 and I can only run 2 delay blocks when I want 58!!!!

How about 32?

 

[[Nathan]]

How about 32?

I can still hear that note you hit in 1996

 

[Baba]

That's the catch 22 with maximalist products though, they're greatest strength is also their greatest weakness.

 

[Baba]

That's also so many easy fixes to the perceived issues with them; namely using them with other pedals.

"I need a virtual capo" - get a Drop or XS-1.
"The fuzz doesn't need exactly like my shartblaster SB3000" - spend $90 on the SB3000 and plug it in.

You're right though. Right now, with my Stomp XL, I can "get away with" my poly capo pitch-shifted presets, (1/2 step up and 1/2 step down), but honestly, a drop pedal for one, and a physical capo on the neck would solve those issues, and let me just use one preset that has everything I need.

 

[AlbertA]

The grid in fractal units is one of my favourite features in their ecosystem and still feels very creative and playful when designing tones. It's also a fun problem solver when a particular block gets close but doesn't exactly nail a function I'm chasing.

This is exactly it - its specially true when I just want to "emulate" an effect to a high degree of closeness. The grid + modifiers is yet to be unmatched outside the Fractal world at least in the guitar gear arena.

 

[texhex]

Limited paths with not enough blocks.