What's preventing you from getting a Helix Stadium (if you really want to buy it eventually)?

[Orvillain]

And I think Fractal and Kemper get less flack than everyone else partially due to sheer breadth of discreet reverb types they offer. Cliff currently has, what 79-80 different reverb algos and Kemper has 65+? You get that many cracks at the bat, and you're liable to cater to a wider set of tastes.

Yes, for sure. But also.... Fractal just has a far higher quality sound from the off. Their techniques are superior. And if I want to make their reverbs sound vintage and shit (not always a bad thing) then I switch them to economy mode.

Comparatively, Stadium has 13 HX-era models and even if you add the legacy M reverbs....it's still just 25 total.

That being said, we know that there are reverb plans yet to be revealed. People forget that when you showed the "approved" list of block types for Stadium, there was an entire category of reverbs that had to be redacted because it wasn't ready to be announced yet....

I never saw that redaction, to be fair.

 

[mikah912]

Okay, but.... no.

1 - I'm not looking for one super specific algo that I'm stoked on.
2 - RV5 modulate is not the same as RV6 modulate.
3 - The Helix reverbs collectively don't cut through as well as dedicated pedals do; clearly audible in the video you posted too.
4 - My original post that you responded to was a technically orientated post; I was tackling the idea that a Lexicon engineer would only be capable of making Lexicon style reverbs. It isn't true.
5 - I don't think there are great reverbs in Helix. I think there are passable reverbs in Helix.
6 - Even the newer "Dynamic" ones suffer from metallic resonances and a lack of clarity; something that I believe is the result of DSP limitations around the orthogonal matrices used in their FDN design.

In all seriousness, I didn't mean to imply that Norm could only replicate Lexicon style stuff. Moreso that he released a slate of reverbs that cover a lot of ground and are probably indiciative of his taste and algo chops. So if I were you and sniffed them and thought "Meh. Passable.".....I just wouldn't be stoked to see whatever else he has coming down the pike.

Just to my ears, I definitely heard "metallic" tones in some M-series reverbs and probably to a smaller degree in the HX version of the Ganymede/Seachlights/DoubleTank era. Not so much with the Dynamic verbs.

Definitely not "a lack of clarity" to my ears, but that's harder to quantify, frankly.....

 

[Orvillain]

I didn't mean to imply that Norm could only replicate Lexicon style stuff.

WELL THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU DID LETS FIGHT NOWWWWWWWW

 

[EOengineer]

Who the fuck is Norm?

 

[mikah912]

Yes, for sure. But also.... Fractal just has a far higher quality sound from the off. Their techniques are superior. And if I want to make their reverbs sound vintage and shit (not always a bad thing) then I switch them to economy mode.

All that being said, weren't you saying Cliff didn't pull off your RV-5 modulated reverb either?

Ah well, he (and Christoph Kemper) set an incredibly high bar on reverbs and delays, fasho. I mean, Cliff programmed all 80 algos himself while still updating and reupdating his amp modeling engines.

Keeping it a buck, that's 100 percent what I miss most from those two platforms respectively. Still, I get a lot of great stuff out the Dynamic reverbs, Hot Springs, Glitz and Ganymede on Stadium. Really fun playing with them stacked on parallel lanes with modulation and wahs behind them too.

 

[Orvillain]

All that being said, weren't you saying Cliff didn't pull off your RV-5 modulated reverb either?

Yeah but that is a case of me wanting a specific sound. Different topic altogether.

Ah well, he (and Christoph Kemper) set an incredibly high bar on reverbs and delays, fasho. I mean, Cliff programmed all 80 algos himself while still updating and reupdating his amp modeling engines.

I'm not sure, maybe @FractalAudio wants to confirm either way, but I think some of the algo's are just tuned versions of the same thing. So you might have a generalised Hall algorithm that can do 10 different sounds; doesn't mean they're actually 10 different algorithms. Just various filter coefficients and filter bank sizes are set differently. The overall topology still being the same. That's exactly how I'd build you 80+ reverbs anyway.

Keeping it a buck, that's 100 percent what I miss most from those two platforms respectively. Still, I get a lot of great stuff out the Dynamic reverbs, Hot Springs, Glitz and Ganymede on Stadium. Really fun playing with them stacked on parallel lanes with modulation and wahs behind them too.

If there's an olive branch here, the analog delays on Helix are the top tier ones I think!

 

[JiveTurkey]

Yeah but that is a case of me wanting a specific sound. Different topic altogether.


I'm not sure, maybe @FractalAudio wants to confirm either way, but I think some of the algo's are just tuned versions of the same thing. So you might have a generalised Hall algorithm that can do 10 different sounds; doesn't mean they're actually 10 different algorithms. Just various filter coefficients and filter bank sizes are set differently. The overall topology still being the same. That's exactly how I'd build you 80+ reverbs anyway.


If there's an olive branch here, the analog delays on Helix are the top tier ones I think!

 

[SillyOctpuss]

If there's an olive branch here, the analog delays on Helix are the top tier ones I think!

Transistor tape is killer too, I think the Helix delays are really excellent. I agree about the reverbs though.

 

[mikah912]

I'm not sure, maybe @FractalAudio wants to confirm either way, but I think some of the algo's are just tuned versions of the same thing. So you might have a generalised Hall algorithm that can do 10 different sounds; doesn't mean they're actually 10 different algorithms. Just various filter coefficients and filter bank sizes are set differently. The overall topology still being the same. That's exactly how I'd build you 80+ reverbs anyway.

True, Fractal has "small/medium/large" variants of the five foundational types (Chamber, Hall, Spring, Plate, Room) that probably shouldn't add to the count of discreet reverb types.

Take those out, tho, and the list "dwindles" to 60 or so, which is still exponentially more than everybody except Kemper.

Still, would love for Cliff to share whatever he feels like sharing on that subject. The Fractal Wiki has a ton of great direct quotes from him and other info on their reverbs.

 

[EOengineer]

Transistor tape is killer too, I think the Helix delays are really excellent. I agree about the reverbs though.

Part of the reason reverb hasn’t been an issue for me is that I’m typically using the space echo or tape echo, both of which wash out uncontrollably very easily with reverb…and I like some washed out sounds.

I get people want competitive verbs, it’s honestly not my area of expertise.

IMO the cosmos echo is the best space echo model out there period.

 

[JiveTurkey]

The general internet dummy (aka myself) can get great ambients and the wets from the Stadium. It's really just when you are getting down to the specific nitty gritties is there a chance where you might go "I wish there was this specific/exact thing or that..."

 

[Deadpan]

I noticed i can load up a verb that is intended to be intense and really lower the mix to get what I need.

 

[bucephalus]

My solution to this issue is to basically never use reverb.

I can't bear the sound of an electric guitar without at least a touch of reverb

 

[dbfretz]

Strymon and Fractal cloud types should be achievable.

 

[molul]

Now we're talking about reverbs, I'd love a stereo version of Particle verb.

 

[EOengineer]

Now we're talking about reverbs, I'd love a stereo version of Particle verb.

This is the one verb I actually use. It’s so good into a driven amp for weird pad sounds.