What's preventing you from getting a Helix Stadium (if you really want to buy it eventually)?

[Boudoir Guitar]

I wanted to make it work with the pedals I had. It's been a lot of years since I owned them and it has had CPU optimizations and gapless switching that make it better to use.

I'd never pair it with a FC, would be better off buying a FM9 at that point.

For use with pedals -- I don't see why everyone tries to put everything on the same board. The FM3 is a chunky beast and has to have its own IEC anyway -- trying to put it on a board, to me, is just adding headache for limited benefit. But I also don't see the point of gigging an modeler of that size/ability with pedals.

I think one would use an FC+FM3 when in some instances they would want to use the FM3 solo, where others they might want to expand switching.

All of this is to say that while the AM4 may make an FM3 a bit more of a niche product beyond just "the lower cost, smaller footprint, entry into Fractal", I don't think it completely kills the need for, so, an FM0 in the next gen of full-fat modelers from Fractal.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I almost typed out a car analogy but deleted it. But my premise was...I have a 2016 Honda CR-V that runs great and is fully paid off. I'm sure the 2026 cars are nicer and have cooler features and all that. But what I have is working and I just don't want to spend money to replace it.

I have a 2024 CR-V. The CarPlay is really cool. Do you think Fractal or Helix Stadium will get CarPlay first? Oh wait…

 

[OneEng]

The AM4 honestly has very few shortcomings for the basic user. IMO its biggest issue is the lack of 4CM capability followed by missing pitch and multitap delay fx. But if you use it as an all-in-one, then those shortcomings become less of an issue.

What the basic user needs is something that replicates their typical pedalboard + amp signal chain in the virtual realm and is relatively easy to use. Part of the HX Stomps popularity besides its small form factor and lower cost has to be that it does just enough for most people.

FM3 to me is pretty much dead as a product after the AM4 release because it's bulky, and doesn't offer enough over the AM4. The main reason to go for the FM9 is the dual amp/cab features and more complex effects chains. But in Europe it costs over twice what the AM4 costs and you could buy a VP4 + AM4 or dual AM4 for less. Remember, the G66 pricing really sucks for us Europeans. We pay about 160 € / ~$189 more for the AM4 vs US retail price, and that's before VAT.

The AM4 has been a bit of a rugpull over new modelers because even though it has a more dated user interface, it's still streamlined enough that it's not annoying to work with. When it came out I wasn't convinced but now owning it, I have to admit I was wrong. It does just enough to take out the most annoying parts of the Fractal onboard UI experience that I no longer reach for the editor software.

While Helix Stadium is going to be even easier to use, it does come with a much bigger price tag (about 2x AM4 in EU) and is a less mature, and a bit larger product.

I guess when I gave up my tube amps, I also gave up on a custom pedal board about the same time. The idea was to simplify, lighten, and minimize the opportunity for anything to go wrong on stage.

The way I understand it, the AM4 has a noise gate/compressor at the start of the chain (reasonable since this is a very popular thing to want) 4 slots; however, 1 of those should be an amp .... so an amp and 3 effects, and an output EQ. It also looks like you can get a boost without using a slot, but I am not sure hot this might work. I agree with you that this combination covers the lions share of every signal chain. It definitely covers most everything I do.

YMMV indeed. I've found over the years that it's a rare case where I would have more than 1-3 fx on at once. I don't do the "drive A into drive B" stacking thing, hell I don't even use drive pedals most of the time since my amps are very capable.

Yep. Me too.

I have come to rely very heavily on my Band Helper interface though. Love having a setlist drive my guitar pedal setup just by switching to the next song in the set. Takes all of 5 minutes to create a new set in any order I want. Since I have a tablet on stage anyway to adjust my IEM mix (which I don't have to do much with or very often now that things are dialed in), having a setlist manager is a wonderful thing. I wouldn't give that up now (ever); however, even the AM4 has MIDI so I wouldn't have to.

So what my next rig selection comes down to in my case is good amp tones, good reverb, good delay, ability to quickly setup a particular tone on a patch, and MIDI control for setlist automation with 4 buttons or more. At this particular moment in time, it looks like I could have everything I need in an AM4 and buy a backup for the price of the Stadium.

Still, Stadium is a MUCH more powerful platform. With time, I think the tables will turn, but the fact is AM4 really did shake up the market IMO.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I've got no beef with wall warts and love my AM4, but, I also don't really consider it an "all-in-one". Its much more of a "UAFX amp style pedal where I actually get to pick the amp, reverb and boost from big ol' lists and still have a slot for one other effect.".

Yeah I bought it because I wasn’t geeked with every aspect of Fractal effects; pitch, some OD’s, and some delays.

 

[JCW308]

It's just a money thing for me. I need to have two of everything so.....it's just not going to work for me.

 

[ChordInversion]

The main reason to go for the FM9 is the dual amp/cab features and more complex effects chains.

When I got the FM9, I was sure I was going to use dual amps and speaker cabinets. And then I pretty much never did. Now I'm delighted with the AM4 and, for those times when I want extra effects, the VP4 and my individual pedals. And the compactness of the AM4 is great for times like today, when I took it by itself to a friend's place to play.

And that took me out of the Stadium market after all. I didn't expect that, but it happened, and I'm really happy with my gear.

 

[laxu]

When I got the FM9, I was sure I was going to use dual amps and speaker cabinets. And then I pretty much never did. Now I'm delighted with the AM4 and, for those times when I want extra effects, the VP4 and my individual pedals. And the compactness of the AM4 is great for times like today, when I took it by itself to a friend's place to play.

And that took me out of the Stadium market after all. I didn't expect that, but it happened, and I'm really happy with my gear.

That's pretty much me and Axe-Fx 3. I just never made full use of its horsepower.

Would I take slightly more powerful than the AM4? Maybe one with 6 blocks and all the VP4 effects? Of course! But that's not the product we have and for me it's a good enough compromise for now.

 

[Jarick]

When I got the FM9, I was sure I was going to use dual amps and speaker cabinets. And then I pretty much never did. Now I'm delighted with the AM4 and, for those times when I want extra effects, the VP4 and my individual pedals. And the compactness of the AM4 is great for times like today, when I took it by itself to a friend's place to play.

And that took me out of the Stadium market after all. I didn't expect that, but it happened, and I'm really happy with my gear.

To me it's finding something that doesn't feel like a compromise or limitation because inevitably I end up upgrading. First time I had the Axe 3 I felt it was overkill and downsized to the FM3, but then I ran into switching limitations and occasionally DSP issues. That's why I grabbed your FM9, it seems to be the sweet spot for me, still overkill for DSP but more practical than Axe 3.

AM4 is really appealing with the simpler interface, but I know I'd get annoyed with the limitations. If there were 6-8 effect blocks then I could make it work, especially if one of those was the micro pitch.

 

[mikah912]

To me it's finding something that doesn't feel like a compromise or limitation because inevitably I end up upgrading. First time I had the Axe 3 I felt it was overkill and downsized to the FM3, but then I ran into switching limitations and occasionally DSP issues. That's why I grabbed your FM9, it seems to be the sweet spot for me, still overkill for DSP but more practical than Axe 3.

AM4 is really appealing with the simpler interface, but I know I'd get annoyed with the limitations. If there were 6-8 effect blocks then I could make it work, especially if one of those was the micro pitch.

Rightsizing is a whole-ass thing, for real. Stadium is the "Goldilocks" unit for me most of the time, and for those times when I just need a quick grab-n-go.....I have a slim laptop rig running Helix Native already set up.

From the moment Stadium was announced, I also conceived of this as a unit that would have no limitations for me - even at launch - and would only expand capabilities as it aged.

Everything else on the market - to me - would be either a lateral step or a step backwards. Makes it real easy for my anxious mind to stop thinking about other hardware or possible stuff coming down the line. That being said, I'm real curious to see what's in the Fractal Icons Marshall collection that's arriving soon.

 

[OneEng]

That's pretty much me and Axe-Fx 3. I just never made full use of its horsepower.

Would I take slightly more powerful than the AM4? Maybe one with 6 blocks and all the VP4 effects? Of course! But that's not the product we have and for me it's a good enough compromise for now.

I don't think AM4 is going to fill everyone's expectations. Some have grown used to having near infinite capabilities in routing and efx .

Like you, I do find that while I have 4 pre and 4 post plus a pre-compressor, and post eq, I rarely use them all, or if I do use more than 4 total, I do so in a frivolous way that could have been done another way.

I have never thought I needed 2 amps or 2 cabs. I just grew up hearing way too many great tones from traditional amp + pedal + cab setups to think that I would need something else to meet my needs (mostly covers).

For the "give me everything" shoppers, I do believe that Stadium is going to be the bees knees as it matures. All the power of Axe 3 FX with the GUI of Helix (and then some) with the capture of ToneX .... and many features no other unit is even offering.

I do wonder if, in the future, Line 6 will release an "SM4" (Stadium engine based) 4 button simplified device that sells for $500 . I can't fathom Line 6 (being the behemoth they are) letting a little company like Fractal eat their lunch in the "bang for the buck" category they have so dominated in the past. Of course, they will first lower prices on the current lineup to compensate for the potential market erosion caused by the AM4 .... but only when Fractal gets its manufacturing crap together and can supply higher volumes to meet demand. Perhaps in a year or two we might see the "SM4"?

 

[laxu]

I do wonder if, in the future, Line 6 will release an "SM4" (Stadium engine based) 4 button simplified device that sells for $500 . I can't fathom Line 6 (being the behemoth they are) letting a little company like Fractal eat their lunch in the "bang for the buck" category they have so dominated in the past. Of course, they will first lower prices on the current lineup to compensate for the potential market erosion caused by the AM4 .... but only when Fractal gets its manufacturing crap together and can supply higher volumes to meet demand. Perhaps in a year or two we might see the "SM4"?

I don't think they will. I would expect a "Stadium Stomp" to be about the same price as the AM4 at minimum, and most likely they will try to go for a smaller form factor.

I could see it being something similar to the Hotone Ampero 2 Stomp which is kinda in-between HX Stomp and AM4 in size. You can fit a good amount of I/O in that size as well as a modest size touchscreen.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

but only when Fractal gets its manufacturing crap together and can supply higher volumes to meet demand.

I think this gets it ass backwards. My guess is the reason Fractal are finally able to offer a product at same price as HX Stomp that is pretty equivalent to the HX Stomp in terms of hardware is because they've made some pretty big strides forward on the logistics side of things that they can move the AM4/VP4 units fast enough and in high enough volume to pull that off.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

POD Stadium...

 

[laxu]

I think this gets it ass backwards. My guess is the reason Fractal are finally able to offer a product at same price as HX Stomp that is pretty equivalent to the HX Stomp in terms of hardware is because they've made some pretty big strides forward on the logistics side of things that they can move the AM4/VP4 units fast enough and in high enough volume to pull that off.

I think it's more that the chips used by the VP4/AM4 have been released into mass production and have gotten cost effective for Fractal to make such a product. The AM4/VP4 are taking all the work they have put into their current gen over the past 7 years and packaging them into hardware that can cost less than their previous lineups. With the VP4/AM4 being compatible with Axe-Fx 3 code, there is no porting work required beyond needing to make sure things don't max out the CPU.

So less hardware and software development cost involved.

 

[ChordInversion]

To me it's finding something that doesn't feel like a compromise or limitation because inevitably I end up upgrading. First time I had the Axe 3 I felt it was overkill and downsized to the FM3, but then I ran into switching limitations and occasionally DSP issues. That's why I grabbed your FM9, it seems to be the sweet spot for me, still overkill for DSP but more practical than Axe 3.

AM4 is really appealing with the simpler interface, but I know I'd get annoyed with the limitations. If there were 6-8 effect blocks then I could make it work, especially if one of those was the micro pitch.

Makes perfect sense to me, and I'm glad the FM9 worked out for you. I clearly don't have those same needs, so we both get what works for us!

 

[AlbertA]

I think it's more that the chips used by the VP4/AM4 have been released into mass production and have gotten cost effective for Fractal to make such a product.

From what I gather the AM4 was at least 4 years in development. And if you look at the gut shots I took, they streamlined the PCB design with just enough features to also reach that price point.

Of course, the software effort/investment/architecture has paid off obviously as well. You couldn't have one without the other.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

I think it's more that the chips used by the VP4/AM4 have been released into mass production and have gotten cost effective for Fractal to make such a product. The AM4/VP4 are taking all the work they have put into their current gen over the past 7 years and packaging them into hardware that can cost less than their previous lineups. With the VP4/AM4 being compatible with Axe-Fx 3 code, there is no porting work required beyond needing to make sure things don't max out the CPU.

So less hardware and software development cost involved.

From what I gather the AM4 was at least 4 years in development. And if you look at the gut shots I took, they streamline the PCB design with just enough features to also reach that price point.

Of course, the software effort/investment/architecture has paid off obviously as well. You couldn't have one without the other.

Of course this all plays into it -- to sell a cheaper product, you've got to be able to make a cheaper product. QED. My response was to the dude that was saying something about Fractal improving manufacturing logistics to move more AM/VP4 units which is what I considered to be ass-backward.

To sell a cheaper product profitably, you also have to be able to move more of them than more expensive products. My guess is they wouldn't have undertaken that 4 years of development without also improving their logistical game to be able to move more units than they have traditionally been moving, and given how quickly they seem to be shipping boatloads of the units, and how quickly stock seems to be replenishing, that seems to have happened.

 

[Jarick]

I'm really intrigued to see the Stomp version of the Stadium. That may end up being where I jump in the pool honestly. HX Stomp was such a good product, maybe the best digital release of the last 15 years honestly. Form factor, flexibility, I/O, even UI given the limitations, and price? It's a lot to live up to honestly but it could be massive.

 

[OneEng]

I don't think they will. I would expect a "Stadium Stomp" to be about the same price as the AM4 at minimum, and most likely they will try to go for a smaller form factor.

I could see it being something similar to the Hotone Ampero 2 Stomp which is kinda in-between HX Stomp and AM4 in size. You can fit a good amount of I/O in that size as well as a modest size touchscreen.

I was just thinking that Line 6 is going to want to share their IP across a family of products like others do (including Line 6). Stadium XL and Stadium "standard" are just the flagship models. I fully expect them to continue to fill out their product lineup with Stadium class processing and features ..... and sadly, to quit developing on the older Helix line completely.

So the question really comes down to what the Line 6 product lineup looks like. I would say that the current HX Stomp XL is the head to head competitor to AM4. I also don't think that the HX Stomp line will be getting much new development while Line 6 fills out their new Stadium based product lineup.

That is just how I read the tea leaves

Also, Line 6 seems to undercut Fractal in price. I expect that this will continue in the future so the max I could see the SM4 sell at would be $600 to undercut the AM4's $700 price. Line 6 can do this due to higher volume (and arguably better hardware engineering designed specifically for high volume manufacturing low costs).

 

[sashimi]

I'm really intrigued to see the Stomp version of the Stadium. That may end up being where I jump in the pool honestly. HX Stomp was such a good product, maybe the best digital release of the last 15 years honestly. Form factor, flexibility, I/O, even UI given the limitations, and price? It's a lot to live up to honestly but it could be massive.

I just hope they can keep it compact and affordable. I’d take the current size with upgraded DSP and Agoura modeling over something much larger and more expensive to accommodate the new touchscreen interface. It will be interesting to see what they end up with.