W/D-D/W- How Would You Do This?

[TSJMajesty]

I'm thinking I may want to get a little crazy and set up a rig like I've never done before, while I have the time on my hands recovering from my broken heel.

I have 2 stereo Mesa 4x12 cabs, a Tri Axis and MP-1 for the preamp, and a choice of a Mesa 2:90, 50/50, or 20/20 for the power. And the Axe III for effects.

I want a crazy stereo signal, using 4 channels, and possibly even some switching to bring in a clean from the Majesty, using the Piezo, ideally blended with both HB PU's, either split or not, whichever sounds better.

I don't know if I'd also want to run the dry signal thru the Axe, for maybe a stereo Dual Detune, but I'd definitely want the outer sides of the stereo cabs to be 'wet' only.

Not sure if I even have enough cables to do this, and I'm sure there are a few ways to go about it, so I'm asking you guys.

The most I've ever done with a stereo rig in a live setting, is to run thru the MP-1, using its Chorus to create the stereo image, then through some rack effects, into the 50/50, and out to 2 mono Marshall 4x12 cabs. This setup would be more complex, so I'm not even sure the routing I should use. I don't want to use amp modeling in the Axe, but instead get the base tones from the preamp, maybe even using one preamp for cleans, and the other for crunch/lead tones.

The Axe III manual doesn't show a setup using a separate preamp/Power amp, so this is the part I probably need help with.

This is just a home experiment, for shits and giggles!

And I may not get far with this at first, because what I'm pretty sure I should do first, is rearrange my rack gear, and my tools aren't all home with me (still on the jobsite from when I broke my heel.)

 

[Rock Chalk]

I definitely think you would be way happier with how this sounds if you had some kind of third cab to put in the middle, so that you can spread the "wet" cabs far apart. Also, and this is just personal preference, I think a system like this always sounds better with a little bit of dry mixed in the wet.

I did a w/d/w set up with my CLRs and a Marshall 4x12 in the middle, and it sounded glorious!

I know this is not exactly the info you're looking for, as you're not doing w/d/w, but thought I would throw my two cents in........

 

[likitlikeyoulikeit]

I thought the same as rock, but for the piezo, in the center dry....just use a line mixer to blend in the piezo....like one of those boss ones .



I'm about to embark on the wdw thing myself, and my carvin does the same thing.....but I could also route it as a second input and change the input per patch ....so many ways to do it!!!!!


Edit ...just realized I have a blend on my carvin, so that would actually be perfect as is ...oops.

 

[DrewJD82]

You can do it with just the AxeFX and still have all the options you want or don't.

TriAxis L/R Out > AxeFX L/R Input 2 > L/R Output 2 > 2:90 L/R Input > Each side of the 'inner' speakers

AxeFX L/R Output 3 > Mesa 50/50 L/R Input > Each side out to the 'outer' speakers

Input 1 is the piezo coming straight from the guitar into Input 1, that'll come out the wet cabs.

Input 2 is your dry signal, with the option to throw the Detune or whatever else you wanted in there. Your wet signal splits off from that input, so you could run all the wet effects at 100% and put the Input Gain on an Expression pedal to control the overall mix/blend of them with the dry signal, essentially what Petrucci has been doing for years.

Input 1 might need the Multiplexer to do more than control it with a volume pedal, but the way this is set up you could blend it in with the volume pedal when wanted, into a tube preamp and with it's own effects chain, then coming out the wet cabs. Ideally, it'd go to a PA, you could just put Output 1 after the Reverb in that chain and go to a PA with it.

 

[TSJMajesty]

I definitely think you would be way happier with how this sounds if you had some kind of third cab to put in the middle, so that you can spread the "wet" cabs far apart.

That's probably the exact reason why I've never tried it yet. I only have the 2 cabs.
But I still think if I separated the cabs, even though the dry would be in both, I'd still have as wide a stereo spread as far apart as I place them.

 

[GreatGreen]

I made a thread on the Fractal forums about this exact subject a while back. Basically I tried to build the ultimate W/D/W patch. In the end, I made a W/D/D/W patch that also bounces everything down to a stereo signal for FoH, where all the wet effects work seamlessly in series, and any % of the dry signal can be blended into the wet cabs and any % of the wet can be blended into the dry cabs. I also added a Volume block after the post effects for an overall wet level control.

Here's a pic of the finished patch:

The general idea for the post effects is that they're all set to run Mix 100% and their bypass is set to "mute input," and the level control in each block is used for volume. The routing allows for no doubling of the signals either, while each effect independently connects to each effect after it which allows for your delays to be processed by the reveb block for example. The signal flow works like this:

Here's a link to the thread I made about it on the Fractal forums (with patch download links):

Clean, Capable W/D/W + FoH Grid Routing Idea

Hey guys, I’ve found that with the Axe-Fx, the potential for setting up W/D/W patches is there, but setting up the grid to give you maximum flexibility can be tough to lay out. Lately I’ve been trying to really nail down how to setup the most flexible grid layout for W/D/W and after some trial...

forum.fractalaudio.com

In your case, with this patch, instead of doing Send/Return blocks, you could just replace the Send block with the Output4 block, then route the Output 4 jacks to your preamp inputs, then route the preamp outs back to Input 4, which would replace the Return block in the patch. You could even use the Left and Right outputs and inputs to drive both your preamps, like Output 4L + Input 4/L for preamp A, and Output 4R + Input 4/R for preamp B.

For your piezo setup, you could plug the piezo cable into either Input 2 or Input 3 of the Axe-Fx, then put the Input 2 block wherever you like within the patch and go from there.