Vintage 30 China vs UK (Graphs)

[James Freeman]

Another 'classic' JF post, enjoy.

V30 CH vs UK
When I got my 1960BV cab I immediately hear a much darker tone from the new 2023 UK Vintage 30 speakers compared to my beloved China 2011 V30.
It sounded like the Chinese V30 has clearer and more extended treble.

CH vs UK Difference
By flipping the response of one IR in my DAW and applying the second IR after it I can compare the frequency response difference between the two IRs.
Notice the -12dB (cone mode?) difference at exactly 6400Hz, this is the biggest audible difference between the two.
The 2023 UK Vintage 30 is missing the peak at 6.4kHz... what causes that? Your guess is as good as mine.

CH vs UK Difference Matched
Of course I boosted the UK cab by +12dB at exactly 6400Hz with Q of about 5.
Lo and behold, the 1960BV cab with 2023 UK Vintage speakers sounds like my beloved China 2011 Vintage 30.
Of course the reverse (and everything in between) also works.

 

[laxu]

That's interesting! I need to try that with my diagonal 2x12 and see how it sounds. Mine has probably similar age Chinese V30s.

 

[2dor]

Unrelated but did your 1960B cab need any screw tightening etc? I read quite a few posts online where Marshall cabs were notorious for that stuff and folks would also apply sealant on the inside edges where the panels met.

 

[EOengineer]

Unrelated but did your 1960B cab need any screw tightening etc? I read quite a few posts online where Marshall cabs were notorious for that stuff and folks would also apply sealant on the inside edges where the panels met.

I’ve owned a couple 1960A and 1960AV cabs and have never seen that. The only rattling or vibration issue I’ve ever experienced was with a Mesa recto trad 4x12 cab I owned. Was honestly a PITA.

 

[bikescene]

I have two 16-ohm V30s that are similar in age to yours: a 2012 and I think a 2025.

I’ve shot IRs of them in identical positions in a 2x12 but never superimposed the graphs.

I’m going to try matching them with a 6kHz boost when I get a chance.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Always good seeing you, JF!

 

[saarangnarayan]

It would be interesting to throw an older V30 from the supposedly "classic" era (2000–2003?) into this mix and see how it compares.

 

[Chocol8]

It would be interesting to throw an older V30 from the supposedly "classic" era (2000–2003?) into this mix and see how it compares.

I would love to see a handful of each. My suspicion is that there is a lot more variation over the years and maybe from unit to unit than just UK vs China.

 

[maddnotez]

Given that every V30 is probably completely different I stopped caring about the graphs and the years and the headache from that.

Unfortunately the only true value about a V30 is that they're 100% inconsistent.

But I've typically favored any China made V30 that I've had and typically choose those first but any of them can sound good or bad.

 

[bikescene]

I’ve shot IRs of all four 2002 V30s (8-ohms) in my Mesa Traditional 4x12. I could try to shoot them in REW next week to get them all on 1 graph.

Or if there’s an easy way to load up multiple IRs into a graph, I could try to do that.

 

[bikescene]

I looked up how to import IRs into REWs graph.

I put an SM57 1.5inches away from the center of the cap in all IRs. It's not a particularly controlled test, but I was able to determine the exact center location of my cabs as reference. The IRs are very different sounding from each other even though the graphs appear to be pretty close.

Here are the IRs:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/i7aj...ey=lkxk5clon50dhwqt99rdggaar&st=0wg990rs&dl=0

I had the lower half of my Jet City Vertical 2x12 loaded with either a MIC (2012) or UK (2025) V30, both 16 ohms.

My Mesa Traditional Straight 4x12 were loaded with 8 ohm speakers from 2001. Interestingly, 1 of the V30s had a different manufacture date (28EL vs 18EL). That V30 has more top end info in the IR. I didn't control the speaker's position, so there are flaws in the comparison.

16-Ohm V30 Comparison (Jet City Vertical 2x12)
Red 2012 MIC V30 10HX (16 ohm, 2x12) - Green 2025 UK V30 CL14 (16 ohm, 2x12)

8-Ohm V30 Comparison (Mesa 2002 Traditional 4x12)
2001 V30s - Blue Purple Teal 18EL - Orange 28EL

Apples (16 Ohm in 2x12) vs Oranges (8 Ohm in 4x12)
Red 2012 MIC V30 10HX (16 ohm) - Orange 2002 UK V30 28EL (8 ohm)

Red 2012 MIC V30 10HX (16 ohm) - Purple 2002 UK V30 18EL (8 ohm)

Green 2025 UK V30 CL14 (16 ohm) - Purple 2002 UK V30 18EL (8 ohm)

 

[AlbertA]

CH vs UK Difference
By flipping the response of one IR in my DAW and applying the second IR after it I can compare the frequency response difference between the two IRs.
Notice the -12dB (cone mode?) difference at exactly 6400Hz, this is the biggest audible difference between the two.
The 2023 UK Vintage 30 is missing the peak at 6.4kHz... what causes that? Your guess is as good as mine.

@jay mitchell probably knows why


Dust cap differences? Do you have any shots of both speaker drivers?

 

[Orvillain]

@James Freeman were the speakers front or rear mounted?

 

[deadpool_25]

I have favored Mesa V30s which, as I understand it and as Randall mentioned in one of his videos, are different than even the normal UK V30s. I’m not sure what the difference is though.

 

[Deadpan]

I have favored Mesa V30s which, as I understand it and as Randall mentioned in one of his videos, are different than even the normal UK V30s. I’m not sure what the difference is though.

I have TOO many speakers.

Mesa V30 are not all made the same either. Some sound just like the Chinese version.

I have a 2022 Mesa that even has the same visual construction as a China made V30 but sounds even more different.

 

[DieSchmalle]

@jay mitchell probably knows why


Dust cap differences? Do you have any shots of both speaker drivers?

Something dust cap would be my hunch, too.

The dust cap in a Celestion Vintage 30 speaker is 2.4" in diameter including the glued edge. That corresponds to a sound wave frequency of 5600 Hz. Subtracting the glued edge we get around 6400 Hz.

I don't know what happens there - it just noticed those connections.