Universal Pedal Platform (tube powered FRFR?)

[Chocol8]

I

I mean, it'd be pretty daft to advertise something as a clean pedal platform with high headroom and it entirely lacked high headroom. There's not a single other appealing feature of this thing aside from the point of being a clean pedal platform. I'd imagine they'd expand the line to higher wattage if they started selling. We're back to the 'the average guitarist isn't gigging" and "more people live in apartments than houses where they can't blare amps" side of things.

It's a pair of 6v6 tubes so how much headroom could it possibly have? Lower wattage is a bonus when you want dirt from the amp but it is a negative when you want the amp to stay clean. For this purpose I would want more than 22 watts even for small bar gigs.

If I was doing anything where I wanted a tube amp as a clean platform, and hauling the Bassman was too much hassle, it would not be 2x 6v6 with a Celestion V type! I would probably get a used Fender '68 Custom Pro Reverb, add a 50-100k pot to lift the tone stack, and replace the speaker with an EV or something with a flatter extended response. Between the extra power from the 6L6's and the higher efficiency of the speaker, it would have significantly more headroom and probably cost me less.

 

[metropolis_4]

You’d probably be very surprised how much clean headroom I get out of my 9w 2x6v6 JRT 9/15

I don’t play Synyster Gates style music, but I gig that amp as a pedal platform all the time and it’s amazing. And it sounds nothing like a Deluxe Reverb!

I think so much of it has to do with the way the amp is designed and not just the power tubes it uses.

 

[paisleywookiee]

You’d probably be very surprised how much clean headroom I get out of my 9w 2x6v6 JRT 9/15

I don’t play Synyster Gates style music, but I gig that amp as a pedal platform all the time and it’s amazing. And it sounds nothing like a Deluxe Reverb!

I think so much of it has to do with the way the amp is designed and not just the power tubes it uses.

Yeah, but at a certain point, it's just physics.

With this being 6V6-based, with a single speaker open back cab, it seems more like a money-making platform for Gates, not so much just a pedal platform.

 

[FuzzyAce]

I


It's a pair of 6v6 tubes so how much headroom could it possibly have? Lower wattage is a bonus when you want dirt from the amp but it is a negative when you want the amp to stay clean. For this purpose I would want more than 22 watts even for small bar gigs.

If I was doing anything where I wanted a tube amp as a clean platform, and hauling the Bassman was too much hassle, it would not be 2x 6v6 with a Celestion V type! I would probably get a used Fender '68 Custom Pro Reverb, add a 50-100k pot to lift the tone stack, and replace the speaker with an EV or something with a flatter extended response. Between the extra power from the 6L6's and the higher efficiency of the speaker, it would have significantly more headroom and probably cost me less.

I used to run my YGM-3 (2xEL84) with an EVM12S. It was loud AF, but exceptionally lovely when it got cranked into that sweet spot.

 

[metropolis_4]

Yeah, but at a certain point, it's just physics.

With this being 6V6-based, with a single speaker open back cab, it seems more like a money-making platform for Gates, not so much just a pedal platform.

I use a 9w 6V6-based, single speaker, open back cab amp as my main gigging clean pedal platform

I agree, at a certain point it is physics, but also guitarists always seem to overestimate how much wattage is necessary.

I concede that a lot of it is going to be based on the style of music. I’m not playing down tuned metal at these shows.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I use a 9w 6V6-based, single speaker, open back cab amp as my main gigging clean pedal platform

I agree, at a certain point it is physics, but also guitarists always seem to overestimate how much wattage is necessary.

I concede that a lot of it is going to be based on the style of music. I’m not playing down tuned metal at these shows.

That's kind of the key thing here, is style of music. I think for lower gain stuff, yeah it's likely fine. The 25w Keeley/Supro did well, IMO. But it ain't no hard rock/metal box.

 

[FuzzyAce]

Clean headroom doesn't always mean loud, it just means the preamp doesn't distort easy, or not at all generally speaking. Some amps just don't distort easily, even when the power amp is cranked.

 

[Chocol8]

Clean headroom doesn't always mean loud, it just means the preamp doesn't distort easy, or not at all generally speaking. Some amps just don't distort easily, even when the power amp is cranked.

To me, it simply means how loud it can get (and how loud of an input signal it can take) before it starts to distort. I don't care if the volume is on 3, 6, or 11. Can it reproduce the signal I am sending cleanly?

9-22 watts is pretty loud for some scenarios, but with a single v type in an open back 1x12 it's going to have its limits. Bump up to a pair of 6L6 and use a more efficient speaker and you will simply have more room to play with.

 

[HotRats]

I thought this was pretty interesting when I saw it pop up a few days ago-

SG-22 Signature Tube Amp & Cab by Synyster Gates

Get the best sound quality with our Head Amp and Cab Combo. Dual-box shipping configuration for safe arrival.

store.synner.com

View attachment 52597

Introducing the all-new, all-tube SG-22 Universal Pedal Platform Amplifier. Conceived by Synyster Gates and developed in collaboration with his long-time friend and engineer, Don Morris, the SG-22 incorporates innovative features designed to maximize the potential of your pedalboard or rack effects system in a clean, user-friendly format.

• A clean, transparent high-headroom preamp section that accepts all types of pedals,
faithfully reproducing every nuance of your sound.
• A post-preamp effects loop that can be switched to “line level” for rack effect systems, or “instrument level” for pedals and pedalboard systems.
• Two independent on-board pedal power supplies to power most any type of effects pedal: 9 volt DC up to 0.9 amps, and 18 volt DC up to 0.9 amps.
• The sleek, ultra portable integrated head and speaker cabinet system designed by Synyster Gates makes it easy to organize your effects systems, and easy to use in any playing environment.
• The SG-22 speaker cabinet features a compact, finely tuned open-back design that affords a large, full sound, and is loaded with a Celestion V-Type 12” speaker.
• Latches on the speaker cabinet allows use as a separate head/cabinet pair, or latched
together as a combo. Casters make transporting the SG-22 effortless.

Knowing that Gates is an avid Fractal fan, I’m assuming this is a monitoring solution in lieu of an FRFR cab. Pretty cool that it’s got power for pedals included on the head. I’m definitely curious to see how these get used in the wild. Definitely cheaper than buying a HIwatt head, which is exactly how Gilmour has used HiWatts for decades.

I guess I don't understand the product

1. why use this instead of a traditional combo?
2. I don't understand the pedals power supply since you usually have your pedals in front of you.

 

[metropolis_4]

That's kind of the key thing here, is style of music. I think for lower gain stuff, yeah it's likely fine. The 25w Keeley/Supro did well, IMO. But it ain't no hard rock/metal box.

But would you expect it to be a hard rock/metal box? I think that’s what’s confusing about this amp. 22w, 6v6, 1x12, open back don’t exactly fit the style being conveyed by this being a Synyster Gates amp.

Clean headroom doesn't always mean loud, it just means the preamp doesn't distort easy, or not at all generally speaking. Some amps just don't distort easily, even when the power amp is cranked.

That’s something that my JRT really proves. Volume 2 starts clipping around 3, but Volume 1 stays clean until 7-8 and is considerably louder before it starts to distort. Even though both share the exact same power section and both are just a single 5879.

I think sometimes guitarists don’t differentiate between preamp distortion and power amp distortion and assume a power section is distorting when it’s really just the preamp

 

[jay mitchell]

Just because it uses 2x6v6’s doesn’t mean it has anything to do with a Deluxe Reverb, or sounds anything like one

It does place a pretty low upper limit on the amount of power it can produce, though. I wouldn't rely on a 2 x 6L6 amp as a clean power amp, let alone a 2 x 6V6 unit.

 

[DrewJD82]

I guess I don't understand the product

1. why use this instead of a traditional combo?
2. I don't understand the pedals power supply since you usually have your pedals in front of you.

I don’t really know of any combo amps that specifically focus on just giving you a clean tone that’s just giving you a clean tone without coloring.

And I’d imagine there’s some players now who are getting things like the Chug pedal or other preamp pedals that keep them on the whole time they’re playing.

I’d have no use for them, maybe they’re just something Gates wanted because the way he uses it.

 

[Sascha Franck]

A 22w clean platform is dumb, IMO. not enough headroom.

This! Case closed.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Get a HRD and change the speaker to something suitable for the stuff you like to do. You can thank me later.

 

[Sascha Franck]

And btw, what is that "clean tone without coloration" anyway? A clean tone without coloration is your guitar straight into a neutral solid state amp listened to through a fullrange monitoring system. Add a guitar speaker and there's your coloration already (and a pretty brutal one at that). Add whatever tube amp circuit that isn't made for HiFi applications and there's your next level of coloration. Etc.

 

[gonzoknife]

The only thing special is the 9v power outlets on the back. More modern amp makers should do this. Clean pedal platform amps aren't new. Wampler released his Bravado amp years ago. There was the Supro Keeley too. If all else fails, just get a Twin Reverb. Pedal platform for days and plenty loud.

 

[Chocol8]

And btw, what is that "clean tone without coloration" anyway? A clean tone without coloration is your guitar straight into a neutral solid state amp listened to through a fullrange monitoring system. Add a guitar speaker and there's your coloration already (and a pretty brutal one at that). Add whatever tube amp circuit that isn't made for HiFi applications and there's your next level of coloration. Etc.

It also has a tone controls. The most obvious indication that it is built to at least allow tone coloration.

This is definitely not an FRFR equivalent. It is a "clean" pedal platform where some level of tube and guitar speaker coloration is most definitely desired and it includes a tone stack for further coloration.

The proposed use case on their web page is with dirt pedals in front, NOT a modeler or preamp pedal.

 

[paisleywookiee]

But would you expect it to be a hard rock/metal box? I think that’s what’s confusing about this amp. 22w, 6v6, 1x12, open back don’t exactly fit the style being conveyed by this being a Synyster Gates amp.

The only reason I'd expect it to be a rock/metal amp is due to who's behind it. Otherwise yeah, my expectations are irrelevant.

 

[laxu]

But would you expect it to be a hard rock/metal box? I think that’s what’s confusing about this amp. 22w, 6v6, 1x12, open back don’t exactly fit the style being conveyed by this being a Synyster Gates amp.

Yeah that's the weirdest part. It's completely at odds with the amps Synyster had used in the past - 50-120W Marshalls, Mesas and Bogners.

My Mesa Mark V at 10W single ended can push out about 100 dBA @ 1m volume levels on its clean channel before it starts to distort. That would be enough for some gigs, but it would be the total opposite of what you want for playing hard rock and metal. There's such a noticeable difference in the feel and punch of the amp when set to 45 or 90W even if the measured volume is the same (master volume turned down accordingly).

IMO the output wattage is way more about feel than it is about volume. Like you said, you can do gigs with mere 9W, but you probably don't mind if the signal compresses a little bit from poweramp distortion creeping in. I wouldn't either if I was living mainly in the clean to edge of breakup territory, and for those tones I don't even want the feel of the amp to be too stiff. I run my Mark V at 45W with a tube rectifier for the clean channel for that reason. I'd run 10W more regularly if the amp didn't pop a bit when switching channels from 10W -> 45/90W.

But for those who want to rock, diode rectifier and 30+ watts is where it's at in my experience.

The Synyster amp's feature set is weird for what it aims to be too. If the preamp is not meant to distort, at most maybe juice the signal a bit, then why does it even need an fx loop? Did they just put one in because they feared people would complain otherwise?

I also noticed an odd detail in the product pics: The speaker output jacks are misaligned. Bad Photoshop or sloppy real work?

i do kinda love the combo -> head & cab system though. I wish all combos were like that.

 

[Whizzinby]

“Pedal platform” is such a weird thing, because ultimately I find that it really just means “A clean tone I like”.

There are caveats for amps with say, bad loop design, or amps like my JC120 which I consider a monster “pedal platform” though it’s not particularly great for distortion pedals, but is superb for modulation, delay, reverb, fuzz etc.

But I’ve never had an amp where I liked the clean channel but then thought it was a bad “pedal platform”.