Tube amps are going away…. again.

[JiveTurkey]

This gives me 80's GAS like a mofo

 

[Jarick]

Man; it's hard enough to get a drummer to splurge on some sticks let alone a $5700 e-kit

Oh god I can't even imagine.

I bought a pair of sticks for the first time in a decade a couple months ago and they were like $15 a pair! When I was last gigging I think it was half that, and I would often buy in bulk at $5 per pair, and even would get the cheap sticks for practice that were about $2-3.

Makes me wonder if the non-wooden sticks are getting any more popular. I remember I had a pair of the "Ahead" sticks (like Lars used) which sucked, but I also had some other sticks that were kind of a hard rubber which were super durable. Can't remember what they were called, but they were discontinued and that was a bummer. I was a really hard hitter and was all about the rim shot, so would completely destroy sticks and shatter them in half.

 

[spawnofthesith]

I don't think I've ever seen an electric drum kit on stage. I had one when I was a teenager tho

 

[Stratzrus]

I also believe that the role of tube amps is changing...Where they are still relevant is stages where stage sound matters…and those are on their way down. From what I see online in the US there is still a scene where bands play that are not national headliners…in my country (Netherlands)…it’s getting close to zero. Coverbands in clubs on a Saturday/Friday night?…none in my city, used to be at least 5 20 years ago. Wedding gigs?…DJs took over. If what is happening here is at the forefront of other countries (I think it is)…an important reason to own an amp will go missing: gigs where it has value. Together with a new generation that is much less influenced by a history of guitarheros…there will be a shift.

Personally, as long as I play clubs / small stages my amps will be used…as soon as that changes to IEM gigs/no gigs…there will be dust on some

I think it is different here in the US than in the NL. Smaller bands are still getting work, albeit not nearly as much as the pre-Covid days, but there are still gigs. I like to think about it the way a veteran taxi driver told me on my first day as a driver. I asked him what was the best way to make money and he said "Each driver has to figure out his own hustle. What works for someone else might not work for you."

So I figured out my own hustle, playing Friday night Jazz concerts in churches following a spaghetti dinner (cheap for them to provide) with a wine and cheese & cracker intermission. It's worked well for me, pays enough to compensate my band members above Philadelphia average, and allows me to play the music I want without compromise.

Most of these average sized churches have sound reinforcement designed for speech, not the state of the art FOH operations that mega churches have so we play without using their PA systems. In that situation, a 50 watt tube amp has been absolutely fine. The right amp with plenty of clean headroom and a pedalboard or multi-effects unit for gain and time based effects has worked well for me.

So tube amps aren't dead for everyone. I also love jamming with my friends or just paying at home and in both of those situations using a tube amp can be very rewarding.

Don't get me wrong, I love my FM9 and go through periods where that's all I use with a pair of studio monitors, my pole mounted CLRs, or headphones in the wee hours. But they haven't put my tube amps to rest. At least not yet, for either gigging or playing just for fun.

But my current situation is that I don't gig, don't play in a band and don't have a space where I could play a tube amp at the 90+ dB @ 1m volumes I feel are necessary to make them sound great. So using a modeler into headphones or studio monitors works just great for me. I honestly don't have huge preferences for real guitar speakers vs full range solutions.

Maybe you have to play tube amps at volume to make them sound their absolute best but many modern amps, and even old school amps with a Power Station, can sound really good at lower volumes and can provide an experience that's as enjoyable as full range monitors except at the very lowest levels.

My bedroom rig was an example of how tube amps can sound great at late night apartment levels but I took it to perhaps its illogical extreme to get there with a 1x12, 2x12, and 300 watt subwoofer pushed by a three channel amp with very good master volumes. Note the soapstone coaster on the Rivera Sub 1 for my late night beverage while playing before going to sleep;

Tube amps aren’t going away anytime soon, but they are becoming more of a luxury than a need to have...For home playing, tubes don’t make much sense. They are really loud unless attenuated and that’s always been an issue. Way too many options for low volume playing that don’t involve tubes.

Tube amps still make sense for me. I love my bedroom rig posted above. I like the "Wall of Doom" I had in my living room before I moved.

I really liked the stereo rig I put together with two Fender George Benson Hot Rod Deluxes and an FX8 for doing my Jazz/R&B gigs.

At the same time, it was great being able to switch to my Axe FX and pole mounted CLRs depending on my mood.

I don't think you can dismiss tube amps or modelers out of hand. It really depends on the situation and a given player's needs.

 

[metropolis_4]

Acoustic drums are also decreasing in popularity. I was a drummer growing up in the early 90's so my parents put up with a lot of noise at home. Then of course all the bands would play in my basement so a massive amount of noise.

I've met a few kids who played sports with my son (in the 13-15 age range) over the last couple years who were avid drummers. All of them have electronic kits and only ever play acoustic kits at school or church.

Hell, I sold my last acoustic kit about a decade ago as I never used it, and replaced it with an electronic kit (although that rarely gets used).

For me there's two reasons electronic drums lag behind modelers.

One is the feel...yeah people talk about how modelers don't have the same feel as tubes, but that's so minor compared to hitting a rubber cymbal or mesh drum head. It's a completely different feel and unless you spend a lot of money you aren't getting anywhere close to the feel of an acoustic kit.

Second is sound...cheap drums have modules with crappy sounds that sound straight out of the 80's/90's. If you want a great electronic drum sound, you need to use high quality samples, and that's just creeping into the high end modules now. It's really similar to amp modeling with the first Axe FX came out. Before that the modelers sounded okay but not great and not real, but then with impulse responses and more high fidelity modeling, it started to sound like a real amp.

I’m also a drummer, I can relate to the electric drums problems. I hate having to play on them so much. They feel weird and they sound terrible. Even the super expensive ones.

I’m not sure if it’s even possible to make electric drums that can capture the nuance and response of real drums.

 

[metropolis_4]

I always tell guitarists who aren’t drummers electric drums aren’t the same as digital amps because with digital amps you are still using your normal guitar that feels and responds the same.

Electric drums are more equivalent to a guitarist playing something like this:

 

[RaceU4her]

I’m also a drummer, I can relate to the electric drums problems. I hate having to play on them so much. They feel weird and they sound terrible. Even the super expensive ones.

I’m not sure if it’s even possible to make electric drums that can capture the nuance and response of real drums.

I got the rtom black holes and low volume cymbals for my kit, sounds and feels natural at tv volumes

 

[Jarick]

I’m also a drummer, I can relate to the electric drums problems. I hate having to play on them so much. They feel weird and they sound terrible. Even the super expensive ones.

I’m not sure if it’s even possible to make electric drums that can capture the nuance and response of real drums.

When I was growing up I always dreamed of having a house where I could build a sound proof room to have my drums. Actually I wanted a full studio because that was my dream job in high school (owner/operator of a studio where I could produce bands). But I always thought I would have a place to play drums any time day or night.

Then reality hit when I had kids and was living in apartments, I couldn't play acoustic drums anymore. So I traded my full kit with drums, cymbals, hardware, and bags for an electronic kit. And that e-kit SUCKED. It was a high end kit with mesh heads like a Roland but the triggering sucked and the module was a cheap Roland which sounded like ass.

Now I have a Yamaha DTX kit which has the rubber pads and they have a pretty decent feel, but the cymbals are off and the kick drum sucks. I really want to upgrade a few things...better kick drum, better rack (the one I have sucks where the clamps slide around because it's so cheap), better module that runs samples.

The high end Rolands are pretty sweet, but super expensive.

 

[metropolis_4]

I got the rtom black holes and low volume cymbals for my kit, sounds and feels natural at tv volumes

Those are an improvement, but they still feel and respond weird to me

 

[metropolis_4]

When I was growing up I always dreamed of having a house where I could build a sound proof room to have my drums. Actually I wanted a full studio because that was my dream job in high school (owner/operator of a studio where I could produce bands). But I always thought I would have a place to play drums any time day or night.

Then reality hit when I had kids and was living in apartments, I couldn't play acoustic drums anymore. So I traded my full kit with drums, cymbals, hardware, and bags for an electronic kit. And that e-kit SUCKED. It was a high end kit with mesh heads like a Roland but the triggering sucked and the module was a cheap Roland which sounded like ass.

Now I have a Yamaha DTX kit which has the rubber pads and they have a pretty decent feel, but the cymbals are off and the kick drum sucks. I really want to upgrade a few things...better kick drum, better rack (the one I have sucks where the clamps slide around because it's so cheap), better module that runs samples.

The high end Rolands are pretty sweet, but super expensive.

The Yamaha are probably my favorite when I have to have them. They have really improved the pads, way better than either the old hard rubber or bouncy mesh. I like the Yamaha sounds better than Roland too. Roland don’t sound bad, but they have an unmistakable signature sound that I can’t un-hear when I’m playing.

I play with a couple drummers who are able to use real drums everywhere because they have amazing control of their volume and dynamics. I’m always a little jealous because I’m a bit of a heavy hitter and can’t get away with it like they can

 

[Jarick]

The Yamaha are probably my favorite when I have to have them. They have really improved the pads, way better than either the old hard rubber or bouncy mesh. I like the Yamaha sounds better than Roland too. Roland don’t sound bad, but they have an unmistakable signature sound that I can’t un-hear when I’m playing.

I play with a couple drummers who are able to use real drums everywhere because they have amazing control of their volume and dynamics. I’m always a little jealous because I’m a bit of a heavy hitter and can’t get away with it like they can

Yeah I remember reading really good drummers who would play at super low volumes, but to me that kind of requires at least different cymbals. If you're using medium to heavy cymbals and tap them lightly, it sounds like ass (especially crashes). With light cymbals they open up at low volumes nicely.

In hindsight I wish I would have been much better at lower volumes, to have my "medium" volume drumming lower overall, and to use lighter sticks and cymbals. That's where I left off before I stopped drumming, I wanted to move to larger and lighter cymbals and single ply heads.

 

[metropolis_4]

Yeah I remember reading really good drummers who would play at super low volumes, but to me that kind of requires at least different cymbals. If you're using medium to heavy cymbals and tap them lightly, it sounds like ass (especially crashes). With light cymbals they open up at low volumes nicely.

In hindsight I wish I would have been much better at lower volumes, to have my "medium" volume drumming lower overall, and to use lighter sticks and cymbals. That's where I left off before I stopped drumming, I wanted to move to larger and lighter cymbals and single ply heads.

Yeah these guys both have tons of different cymbals, snares, and kits for different needs and set up a kit for low volume when they know it will be needed. Smaller shells, thin cymbals, single ply heads, specific drum tuning, specific sticks.

They also just have really really impressive stick control technique.


I really wish I would’ve worked more on low volume technique too. My drum set experience was mostly big band swing/Latin, and rock. Neither of which taught me to play quiet

 

[Jarick]

Yeah these guys both have tons of different cymbals, snares, and kits for different needs and set up a kit for low volume when they know it will be needed. Smaller shells, thin cymbals, single ply heads, specific drum tuning, specific sticks.

They also just have really really impressive stick control technique.


I really wish I would’ve worked more on low volume technique too. My drum set experience was mostly big band swing/Latin, and rock. Neither of which taught me to play quiet

I started playing grunge/alt rock (the post-Nirvana band boom), then got into punk rock, and then into hard rock with some heavy influences. Our guitarists were using half stacks cranked way up and the bassist had like a 1500 watt amp with a 4x10 and a 1x18 or something crazy.

My favorite snare drum was a Pearl Chad Smith signature, 5x14 brass shell I think, and I would crank that sucker up so my rim shots would slice through all the noise. We used to turn a lot of heads because so many drummers back then kind of sucked and used crappy gear and had bad technique. Then I'd come in at full volume and we'd get the audiences attention.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Acoustic drums are also decreasing in popularity. I was a drummer growing up in the early 90's so my parents put up with a lot of noise at home. Then of course all the bands would play in my basement so a massive amount of noise.

I've met a few kids who played sports with my son (in the 13-15 age range) over the last couple years who were avid drummers. All of them have electronic kits and only ever play acoustic kits at school or church.

Hell, I sold my last acoustic kit about a decade ago as I never used it, and replaced it with an electronic kit (although that rarely gets used).

For me there's two reasons electronic drums lag behind modelers.

One is the feel...yeah people talk about how modelers don't have the same feel as tubes, but that's so minor compared to hitting a rubber cymbal or mesh drum head. It's a completely different feel and unless you spend a lot of money you aren't getting anywhere close to the feel of an acoustic kit.

Second is sound...cheap drums have modules with crappy sounds that sound straight out of the 80's/90's. If you want a great electronic drum sound, you need to use high quality samples, and that's just creeping into the high end modules now. It's really similar to amp modeling with the first Axe FX came out. Before that the modelers sounded okay but not great and not real, but then with impulse responses and more high fidelity modeling, it started to sound like a real amp.

I wish electronic kits were the norm. You could easily play with either a modeler, and do everything through a couple powered PA speakers for practice, or you could do the drums through the PA, and a tube amp at more sane volumes. Constant volume for an hour or two at 100dB+ is really bad for your hearing.

 

[laxu]

Maybe you have to play tube amps at volume to make them sound their absolute best but many modern amps, and even old school amps with a Power Station, can sound really good at lower volumes and can provide an experience that's as enjoyable as full range monitors except at the very lowest levels.

I have measured that for me, those about 90 dB @ 1m volumes at home are where I'm happy and if it's below, I might as well just use modelers. Power Station does not help with this and neither do great MV amps, have owned both. The issue is entirely with the perceived sound rather than anything the gear does.

Easier to get those lower volumes sounding good in a nearfield listening situation with studio monitors in stereo with a modeler than trying to tame tube amps.

 

[Iron1]

I don't think I've ever seen an electric drum kit on stage. I had one when I was a teenager tho

You may have and just didn't realize it. I saw a band not that long ago that had an eKit with acoustic shells around the pads to look like an acoustic kit. I caught on cause a) it didn't sound acoustic and b) the wiring didn't match a mic'ed drum kit which got me paying closer attention, but I doubt the average non-musician would have been any the wiser (not to say you wouldn't have noticed at this particular gig... but the average non-musician at that gig.) I'd be willing to bet this band isn't the only one doing it and there are quite a few doing it a lot better.

 

[Stratzrus]

I have measured that for me, those about 90 dB @ 1m volumes at home are where I'm happy and if it's below, I might as well just use modelers. Power Station does not help with this and neither do great MV amps, have owned both.

Of course it's a matter of personal tastes. I get tones from my master volume amps and with the Power Station that I'm quite happy with below 90 dB. For me, it's what I'd call after 10PM apartment levels where I think my Fractal gear through a pair of Presonus Eris 4.5s sound noticeably better.

 

[la szum]

Oh come on… let’s not pretend he’s Glenn.

Where did I even mention him?

Seriously, they all kind of suck and have become increasingly self-absorbed for the same reason, and it has a lot to do with
the platform, and what drives views. And few of them (less than the fingers I have on one hand) have a decent enough
personality, so that I would want to spend any amount of time with them.

 

[la szum]

The title and the thumbnail were the main culprit in this. Really the only thing Fluff has made me twitch about is the whole gift of tone thing where he can't seem to be bothered to do anything promotional on it while over in the other corner, Steve Vai is making a vid giving you a personal rig rundown

Yup. With the temporal restrictions impacting all of us I for one am not giving Fluff any of my time. Besides, everything
he so reasonably and chillfully shared has already been public knowledge for quite awhile now.

This news is not news. He is not hipping us to some unknown reality.

And it won't be news a month from now when someone else plows this field that has no fertile soil in it anymore.

 

[la szum]

I don't think I've ever seen an electric drum kit on stage. I had one when I was a teenager tho

I gigged a Jive Turkey approved "Hybrid Kit" for a few years doing Modern Rock/Metal Covers (think Godsmack, Seether, Nickelback).
It thumped. Triggered Digital Kick and Toms through Subs and PA, with Analog Snare, Hi Hat, and Cymbals.

Different kit, but similar setup here at home now.