Tone King Imperial Preamp pedal

[PopsInABox]

I bought this and had a chance to play around with it over the weekend. It most likely is user error/ignorance but I just couldn't get a good comp/clean sound with it. Meaning, comping behind the band with rhythm mixed with some individual note fills, etc, looking for a clean, r&b/soul type clean, using my telecaster, it just sounded thin and weak.

Again, I know it's probably my ignorance since I'm new to ALL of this... but I'm sending it back I think. Any suggestions would, of course, be welcome.

 

[gearJunkie]

I bought this and had a chance to play around with it over the weekend. It most likely is user error/ignorance but I just couldn't get a good comp/clean sound with it. Meaning, comping behind the band with rhythm mixed with some individual note fills, etc, looking for a clean, r&b/soul type clean, using my telecaster, it just sounded thin and weak.

Again, I know it's probably my ignorance since I'm new to ALL of this... but I'm sending it back I think. Any suggestions would, of course, be welcome.

Describe your signal chain including your monitoring solution.

playing it through the Badlander combo in 4CM with my Tele is nowhere near thin or weak. In fact, it sounds so punchy and fat that the Badlander preamp said "daaaamn that's a phat ass tone".

 

[PopsInABox]

Describe your signal chain including your monitoring solution.

playing it through the Badlander combo in 4CM with my Tele is nowhere near thin or weak. In fact, it sounds so punchy and fat that the Badlander preamp said "daaaamn that's a phat ass tone".

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I tried two setups. One for 'live' and one for 'recording'. The recording setup is what I am having the issues with...
Signal chain is as follows:
1. Fender Telecaster Brent Mason Signature > TK Pedal > Fender FR12 (this sounds fine and not thin and plinky)
2. Fender Telecaster Brent Mason Signature > TK Pedal > Presonus Studio 24c (XLR) > Neve RNHP Precision HP Amp > Sennheiser HD660S2 headphones
So setup 2 is what I want to use for recording and practice. And that is where is just sounds like thin, brittle, plinky, etc. Again, I'm SURE it's my ignorance but.... my Helix Floor doesn't give me that issue.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Headphones suck. There's your culprit.

 

[PopsInABox]

Headphones suck. There's your culprit.

I can appreciate the eloquence and depth of this statement. The problem for my limited knowledge is, listening to the demo's (of supposedly straight into the recording software) of the TK through that same setup doesn't sound thin at all. Why would that be?

 

[PopsInABox]

I can appreciate the eloquence and depth of this statement. The problem for my limited knowledge is, listening to the demo's (of supposedly straight into the recording software) of the TK through that same setup doesn't sound thin at all. Why would that be?

For example, listening to Paul from the Studio Rats' demo with his single coil Strat sounds amazing through my headphones. He said in the comments it was straight in to the audio interface with nothing added. Doesn't compute for me.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I can appreciate the eloquence and depth of this statement. The problem for my limited knowledge is, listening to the demo's (of supposedly straight into the recording software) of the TK through that same setup doesn't sound thin at all. Why would that be?

So many things it could be. Post-production. Different IRs/cab emulation. He probably didn't dial it in with those headphones. I'd assume he either dialed it in with the backing tracks or up loud like most would do for a performance or loud (aka fun) playing situation. There's also differences in guitars and they player themselves.

Sorry. Anytime someone says they are having trouble with sounds and then say they are using headphones; it's an instant red flag

 

[Jarick]

It's interesting that they used some of the Synergy tech without using the same hardware as the Friedman stuff. I do like the output options on this one more than the Friedmans though.

 

[gearJunkie]

I have yet to play the TK through its DI. Check your gain staging into the Presonus to make sure you have enough signal. You could also try recording only the mono (L) output from the TK to ensure you don't have some weird phase cancellation with the stereo outputs.

You can also load your own speaker cabinet IRs if the stock onboard IRs aren't working for you.

 

[gearJunkie]

I can appreciate the eloquence and depth of this statement. The problem for my limited knowledge is, listening to the demo's (of supposedly straight into the recording software) of the TK through that same setup doesn't sound thin at all. Why would that be?

Except from a review of the Sennheiser HD660S2 headphones...

The Sennheisers have a charming smoothness to their sound, but their soft bass and lack of dynamic thrust hold them back.

 

[PopsInABox]

Except from a review of the Sennheiser HD660S2 headphones...

Well, ok. But... I do not have this issue with my Helix Floor. I am also listening through those same headphones to Pauls (the Studio Rats) demo of this pedal (same settings, same IR's etc). Obviously I'm not Paul and he's playing a Strat (vintage pickups that should be quite a bit thinner) and I'm playing a tele with not thin pickups and it's still not sounding 'right'. AND, Paul has said that his audio is without anything added or post processed.

I'm not arguing or defending... I simply am not understanding. Maybe I'm too stupid for this stuff but I'm trying to understand and figure it out. So I would think, if the 'non-post-processed' tone of his demo sounds good, I should have at least a decent sound through my set up... or I'm probably just missing something.

I mean, does everyones signal sound like crap to them when they're monitoring their signal in the studio through headphones?

I do appreciate everyone's help so far.

 

[gearJunkie]

Well, ok. But... I do not have this issue with my Helix Floor. I am also listening through those same headphones to Pauls (the Studio Rats) demo of this pedal (same settings, same IR's etc). Obviously I'm not Paul and he's playing a Strat (vintage pickups that should be quite a bit thinner) and I'm playing a tele with not thin pickups and it's still not sounding 'right'. AND, Paul has said that his audio is without anything added or post processed.

I'm not arguing or defending... I simply am not understanding. Maybe I'm too stupid for this stuff but I'm trying to understand and figure it out. So I would think, if the 'non-post-processed' tone of his demo sounds good, I should have at least a decent sound through my set up... or I'm probably just missing something.

I mean, does everyones signal sound like crap to them when they're monitoring their signal in the studio through headphones?

I do appreciate everyone's help so far.

Check your gain staging into the Presonus

ensure you don't have some weird phase cancellation with the stereo outputs.

load your own speaker cabinet IRs if the stock onboard IRs aren't working

 

[Stratzrus]

Fender Telecaster Brent Mason Signature > TK Pedal > Fender FR12 (this sounds fine and not thin and plinky)

Good to hear. This is exactly how I plan to use it with my Telecaster.

 

[PopsInABox]

Thank you @gearJunkie
Indeed, I have tried all of these (well except changing the IR). Nothing to note. I do appreciate your help. Sincerely.

At this point though...

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

Well, ok. But... I do not have this issue with my Helix Floor. I am also listening through those same headphones to Pauls (the Studio Rats) demo of this pedal (same settings, same IR's etc). Obviously I'm not Paul and he's playing a Strat (vintage pickups that should be quite a bit thinner) and I'm playing a tele with not thin pickups and it's still not sounding 'right'. AND, Paul has said that his audio is without anything added or post processed.

I'm not arguing or defending... I simply am not understanding. Maybe I'm too stupid for this stuff but I'm trying to understand and figure it out. So I would think, if the 'non-post-processed' tone of his demo sounds good, I should have at least a decent sound through my set up... or I'm probably just missing something.

I mean, does everyones signal sound like crap to them when they're monitoring their signal in the studio through headphones?

I do appreciate everyone's help so far.

Do you meter your input level into your interface?
No EQs between that input and your headphones?

 

[gearJunkie]

Thank you @gearJunkie

Indeed, I have tried all of these (well except changing the IR). Nothing to note. I do appreciate your help. Sincerely.

Glad to try to help resolve your issues. Life is too short and gear choices are too plentiful to struggle with a piece of kit that doesn't give you what you want.

 

[PopsInABox]

Do you meter your input level into your interface?
No EQs between that input and your headphones?

There are meters on the front of the studio 24c... So I've made sure that I've got appropriate level from the TK to the interface and no clipping... There is nothing between the studio 24c and the Neve RNHP.

 

[PopsInABox]

Glad to try to help resolve your issues. Life is too short and gear choices are too plentiful to struggle with a piece of kit that doesn't give you what you want.

Yes, indeed. I've been mucking about with it for about 3 hours this morning... I'm just not 'getting it' or my current use case just isn't working. I don't understand to be sure.

I mean, if headphones are so bad, is everybody's sound quality crap when they're in the studio tracking? What about IEM's? They sound crap too? I dunno.. I guess I don't know what I don't know.

 

[laxu]

Thanks for the link. For myself, while certainly acceptable/serviceable, both tones aren't what I'd pay money for, simply because I'm getting "better" (well, make that "tighter", which is what I want) tones out of what I already have.
Might of course be totally different in case I had the thing in my hands, but all the current videos suggest that this thing is indeed located somewhat more on the spongy/woofy side of things. Certainly great for some tones, but as said before, a really tight clean sound is a key element of the things I need for most gigs.

Well it's basically something of a modded Fender Blackface on the rhythm channel and more of a Tweed on the lead channel. So I would assume it also emulates the tube rectifier of the original in some way.

The Tone King Imperial has been one of the best Fender clean tones I've heard in an amp but if you are after something more snappy it's maybe not for you. I run even my Mesa Mark V 90 at the 45W tube rectified setting because I like how that feels to play.

 

[laxu]

I tried two setups. One for 'live' and one for 'recording'. The recording setup is what I am having the issues with...
Signal chain is as follows:
1. Fender Telecaster Brent Mason Signature > TK Pedal > Fender FR12 (this sounds fine and not thin and plinky)
2. Fender Telecaster Brent Mason Signature > TK Pedal > Presonus Studio 24c (XLR) > Neve RNHP Precision HP Amp > Sennheiser HD660S2 headphones
So setup 2 is what I want to use for recording and practice. And that is where is just sounds like thin, brittle, plinky, etc. Again, I'm SURE it's my ignorance but.... my Helix Floor doesn't give me that issue.

There could be multiple culprits, but I don't think your gear is it. Seems like good stuff all around.

Things you could try:

• Run it into your DAW, throw a compressor plugin at the end of your chain. Ignore any latency issues, we only care about tone here. Then monitor the track. If this is more to your liking, the issue is most likely that the setup is just not loud enough for you to enjoy.
• Do the above, but add a room reverb plugin. With headphones you don't have room reverb so IRs can sound like you crammed your head where the mic is. Room reverb helps give it the missing space. Alternatively use more of the built in reverb.
• Try different IRs.