The Diezel VH4 (Model) Thread

[MirrorProfiles]

SO 2dor got his hands on a VH4 as well this week, I believe it's a newer model. He kindly made some NAM models at similar settings to me.

I thought I'd try a similar test with emulations to see how close they get to his amp. Started with Helix's model and its instantly way closer in tone. It's hard to get the low end matching the same on all sections, and there's a few other subtle differences. But nothing meaningful and both have plenty of wiggle room to fine tune. Quite funny that with my amp, Helix was most different and with @2dor 's one, it was the easiest to match. The others all had more top end, even when turning presence to 0 and treble way down.

On this one, I didnt bother with Fractal or Amplitube because frankly, its too much effort. Among these are:

Real amp
Helix
STL Borland
STL Amphub
Plugin Alliance/Nembrini Official VH4

Curious what you think here @GuitarJon

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I’ve never played the real thing and now I think I’m glad of that. I might have been disappointed vs my (probably unrealistic) expectations lol.

My introduction to these has been via Adam Jones. I may have never heard his VH4 on its own outside of a VIP thing he did. And I don’t remember the actual tone that well considering I was about 6 feet from Adam and 15 feet from the amp and too focused on the discussion to really internalize the tones. It was a Blue and I did get a couple good pics of the amp that day.

View attachment 57815View attachment 57816View attachment 57817

I recently got into some videos by Joey Jones who did some stuff about dialing in a great tone with a Tele. He likes to play in drop/low tunings and was playing blues rock through a Fractal VH4 sim. I remember him mentioning how the dark amp complemented the brightness of the guitar nicely. I was really liking those tones.


Model or capture or both? This has me interested in checking out some V2 captures to see if anything stands out as particularly excellent.

This is so damn cool. What an experience, and that would probably be enough to make me want a VH4 regardless of how it sounds.

 

[GuitarJon]

Model or capture or both? This has me interested in checking out some V2 captures to see if anything stands out as particularly excellent.

Both! I have captures available for the QC and Tonex: https://sonicdrivestudio.com/categories/captures

 

[2dor]

Yessir those are my earcups lol and weigthed duvet piled up on the cab (along with other home-grown insulation "innovations")

 

[deadpool_25]

This is so damn cool. What an experience, and that would probably be enough to make me want a VH4 regardless of how it sounds.

Well you’d probably want an old silverburst LP as well. I’d been reading about his main guitar and how it had a screw in it in a weird spot that he didn’t want to remove because he was scared it would change the tone. And then at that clinic he hands the guitar around the freaking room. Crazy getting to hold it (TWSS).

 

[FuzzyAce]

I’d been reading about his main guitar and how it had a screw in it in a weird spot that he didn’t want to remove because he was scared it would change the tone.

Damn, that even embarrassed EJ to read that!

 

[contrario]

I don't know much about the circuitry of these amps but I can share my little insight into the topic. I'm a huge TOOL fan. I've listened to them thousands of hours so I think I'm familiar with Adam Jones' VH4 sound. I've never had a chance to play a real VH4 before though but I've been using its emulations from several brands such as Line 6 and STL since they were released.

I could closely replicate his tone in the Fear Inoculum and Lateralus albums with the Helix but I never felt I could properly replicate his tone in the 10,000 Days album with it. Thanks to this thread and @MirrorProfiles posts, I tried the STL Tonality - Wes Borland plugin for the first time and bang, the 10,000 Days album guitar tone in your face immediately. I think the circuit STL has modeled sounds like Adam's silverface amp and his 10,00 Days album guitar sound.

On the other hand, I think the Helix model is also accurate and sounds more like his blueface Diezel and Fear Inoculum/Lateralus sound. I guess this post kinda confirms it.

SO 2dor got his hands on a VH4 as well this week, I believe it's a newer model. He kindly made some NAM models at similar settings to me.

I thought I'd try a similar test with emulations to see how close they get to his amp. Started with Helix's model and its instantly way closer in tone. It's hard to get the low end matching the same on all sections, and there's a few other subtle differences. But nothing meaningful and both have plenty of wiggle room to fine tune. Quite funny that with my amp, Helix was most different and with @2dor 's one, it was the easiest to match. The others all had more top end, even when turning presence to 0 and treble way down.

This probably explains why Adam uses two Diezels all the time. I think he likes the sound of these different circuits and finds something unique in each of them.

 

[2dor]

I think the reason he uses 2 is purely for backup purposes. IIRC his tone mostly comes from that Superbass and one VH4 but who really knows ... they probably blended a ton more in the studio.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I don't know much about the circuitry of these amps but I can share my little insight into the topic. I'm a huge TOOL fan. I've listened to them thousands of hours so I think I'm familiar with Adam Jones' VH4 sound. I've never had a chance to play a real VH4 before though but I've been using its emulations from several brands such as Line 6 and STL since they were released.

I could closely replicate his tone in the Fear Inoculum and Lateralus albums with the Helix but I never felt I could properly replicate his tone in the 10,000 Days album with it. Thanks to this thread and @MirrorProfiles posts, I tried the STL Tonality - Wes Borland plugin for the first time and bang, the 10,000 Days album guitar tone in your face immediately. I think the circuit STL has modeled sounds like Adam's silverface amp and his 10,00 Days album guitar sound.

On the other hand, I think the Helix model is also accurate and sounds more like his blueface Diezel and Fear Inoculum/Lateralus sound. I guess this post kinda confirms it.


This probably explains why Adam uses two Diezels all the time. I think he likes the sound of these different circuits and finds something unique in each of them.

I got pretty close (IMO anyway) with the Helix Diezel for that tone, but I also suspect other models might get their more easily:



It almost saddens me how straightforward it is to achieve these iconic tones with tools we all have at hand. I’d imagine all of the VH4 models can get close, albeit with some settings tweaked. IMO it’s all on the 421 mic and blending things.

I think the reason he uses 2 is purely for backup purposes. IIRC his tone mostly comes from that Superbass and one VH4 but who really knows ... they probably blended a ton more in the studio.

I think his tone just varies from any one section to another. Verse could be superbass, chorus Dual rectifier. I think on the later albums the VH4 has a lot more prominence, but you can really hear when it’s the marshall as it just sounds unapologetically like a plexi.

I do notice a lot of people attribute ALL of his guitar sounds to one amp, and it just ain’t happening. People think his super bass is magic because it sounds like a super bass, a dual rectifier and a VH4…..

 

[James Freeman]

Just to demonstrate this kind of odd presence control, here are some graphs of the poweramp response (using a Suhr Load) with Deep and Presence at 0 and 10:

View attachment 57748

According to schematic the Presence cap is 1uF which makes the Presence basically an all-pass filter of the impedance curve.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

According to schematic the Presence cap is 1uF which makes the Presence basically an all-pass filter of the impedance curve.

Apparently older models are 1uF and newer ones use 220nF, but for all I know they could vary a lot. I looked inside mine and the value is on the underside of the cap, but i’m sure it’s 1uF.

I think there’s also some variation in which transformer tap they use for NFB (8 and 4 Ω). 8 seems to be more common.

 

[deadpool_25]

AJ’s tone is almost always a mix of amps. Most notably his VH4 and a Marshall Superbass. At least according to Joe Barresi. It’s interesting that folks are able to get reallllly damn close with just a VH4 or model of one (and they do get really close IMO). Truthfully I don’t care to get the tone exactly perfect anyway as long as I can nail the general character and vibe and energy.

Article with comments by Joe Barresi.

I’m not trying to hijack, I swear.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

AJ’s tone is almost always a mix of amps. Most notably his VH4 and a Marshall Superbass. At least according to Joe Barresi. It’s interesting that folks are able to get reallllly damn close with just a VH4 or model of one (and they do get really close IMO). Truthfully I don’t care to get the tone exactly perfect anyway as long as I can nail the general character and vibe and energy.

Article with comments by Joe Barresi.

I’m not trying to hijack, I swear.

a big part of my interest in that amp is down to Adam Jones so I’m all for hijacking. A lot of his riffs make total sense when you play them on one, especially single note stuff which just sounds beyond fat.

Earlier era stuff is more modded Super Bass+Recto, Lateralus onwards is predominantly VH4 with some super bass and other bits here and there

 

[deadpool_25]

@MirrorProfiles I got those cabs btw. They’re excellent.

 

[deadpool_25]

I need a great QC V2 capture of a VH4. I’ll definitely check out what @GuitarJon did and I’m sure a few others as well.

Though now you have me wanting to be picky about what VH4 was actually captured.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I need a great QC V2 capture of a VH4. I’ll definitely check out what @GuitarJon did and I’m sure a few others as well.

Though now you have me wanting to be picky about what VH4 was actually captured.

Whats the QC model like?

 

[deadpool_25]

Whats the QC model like?

I only messed with it a little and I remember feeling like it’s decent and I like it in general, but I really don’t know how accurate it is. I don’t care tooooo much as long as it’s fun to play but I’m certainly curious about that.

Maybe @GuitarJon’s video will be informative on that.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I only messed with it a little and I remember feeling like it’s decent and I like it in general, but I really don’t know how accurate it is. I don’t care tooooo much as long as it’s fun to play but I’m certainly curious about that.

Maybe @GuitarJon’s video will be informative on that.

+1. I’m a bit more interested in the models as we know what captures sound like. It’s a bit more interesting to figure out the overall behaviour of the models and what they’re capable of.

Also curious what he thinks of the Helix example I posted today

 

[Dimiguitar]

Wher kaptur pek

 

[2dor]

Wher kaptur pek