The Diezel VH4 (Model) Thread

[The other John Browne]

That’s fair! Which model do you felt got closest to your specific amp? Where did you feel most differences were? I’d imagine a lot of emulations are based on slightly older versions (either Blueface pre-2001 style circuit of the mid 2000's circuit. I think there was a big change around 2007 and maybe another 10-15 years later? For all I know there could be lots of small ones in between. Looking at the gut shots of this amp, there's so many components soldered off the board that are presumably tweaks that have evolved over time.


Big time relate to this. Im so conflicted because I want to love it but it just doesn't bring me the magic I want in an amp. At best, I think they are a distinctive tone that you can almost immediately hear as being a Diezel and nothing else. My issue is, most of the time, I dont think I really need that sound (kind of how I feel with a lot of Orange amps too!).

Both the VH4 and the D-Moll to me weren't love at first chug but the longer I've had them, the more I love them.
Funnily enough, I instantly bonded with both of my Diezel Herberts.

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

Both the VH4 and the D-Moll to me weren't love at first chug but the longer I've had them, the more I love them.
Funnily enough, I instantly bonded with both of my Diezel Herberts.

How would you describe their differences?

 

[GuitarJon]

That’s fair! Which model do you felt got closest to your specific amp? Where did you feel most differences were?

All will be revealed soon! A big portion were a let down for me though if I'm very honest. In terms of sounding big fat and "organic" like the real deal.

Btw I already know that some people will be annoyed by my comparisons, I'm prepared. "You should have done this, you should have done that!" Etc. The thing is, the real amp has such interesting dynamic behaviour that it was impossible to level match certain modelers to the real deal. The real amp gets louder across the entire spectrum with palm mutes and when you play loud open notes or chords, the sound "ducks" down in level. Almost none of the modelers could replicate that behaviour. One could though...

Also, the real amp has such nice clarity and string definition, but with a bunch of the modelers I couldn't get that and by trying to get that by opening up the presence or treble (or changing SIC's etc) the sound only got more fizzy or harsh. Stuff like that.

 

[yek]

FWIW, Fractal dropped the “Dizzy Blue” models in the list of models in the AM4. I don’t know why, maybe they don’t have the actual amp (anymore).

 

[MirrorProfiles]

The thing is, the real amp has such interesting dynamic behaviour that it was impossible to level match certain modelers to the real deal. The real amp gets louder across the entire spectrum with palm mutes and when you play loud open notes or chords, the sound "ducks" down in level. Almost none of the modelers could replicate that behaviour. One could though...

I’ve found this today, even with NAM and ToneX models; the input level is so critical otherwise the compression behaviour changes everything. A lot of models don’t really get the compression aspect right, I agree.

When you’ve posted your video, would you be open to sharing the DI’s and source amp tones? it would be cool to attempt matching. It seems like the amp I have is very much stock and the presence circuit values are something some older amps used.

 

[GTR37]

Any self respecting Adam Jones fan wants or wanted one of these at some point. Back in the early 2000s I got to play a blue one at their NAMM booth with Peter hanging out tweaking things as I was butchering Tool riffs.

I was surprised by how dry the amp was, but also its unusual mixture of girth and definition without being overly scooped.

I’m not sure if I’ll ever actually pursue one, but I recognize them as exceptional and love having an opportunity to learn more about them.

That’s actually a perfect description I felt same when i
Played one at a local music store to be honest after all the hype I was a bit disappointed
It was very dry not saturated but pretty dark and low mid focus
Also has a shit ton of compression
It was articulate but just had this huge low end resonance almost like a sub woofer but still had definition it was weird
And I left much preferring the XTC
SLO and Friedman HBE to be honest.

 

[[Nathan]]

Regardless of the outcomes and discoveries here, I love that these convos pop up from time to time. I’ve gone back to amphub and Borland to mess around with the vh4 through a different mindset. This is the side of modelling that I really appreciate. When I first use sims I’ll just goto the kind of tone that I like to play and the amp will get there to some varying degree. But going back and exploring the amps for what they are is like a second layer of appreciation.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Added a tweaked Helix bounce to the comparison just because it was so different from the others. It still is, but I cranked up the bass and depth so it fills out in a similar way. I also turned presence to 10, and turned treble up as much as I could before it started sounding weird.

All I can really deduce is that that VH4's vary a LOT. (Borland sounds brighter than both of Fractal's models, and all of these are brighter than Line 6's).

I do wonder slightly if Line 6 and Fractal not having the channel volume is doing something? Maybe they modelled the amps with the channel volume at 10 and thats affecting the tone in some way? The Line 6 one is also lighter on bass at comparable settings - sounds fine cranking them though.

EDIT: Looked at the photos of Line 6's amp vault and it looks more like a more recent one (Channel 2 bright switch, newer fonts on faceplate). Of course, they may have more than one VH4 in their possession, or it could simply be just a random spec one. Curious if any VH4 owners have one thats similar sounding to Line 6's.

 

[GuitarJon]

I figured starting my own thread for this didn't make much sense so I'll be dropping my episodes here. Here's number 1:

 

[Lysander]

I figured starting my own thread for this didn't make much sense so I'll be dropping my episodes here.

Wow, that's the OG Helix model? I was not looking at the screen and completely missed most switches between Stadium and the real amp

EDIT: Ah, i get what you mean about the amp reacting differently to input levels. The character and voicing is definitely there though, i really hope they get it right with Agoura eventually.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I figured starting my own thread for this didn't make much sense so I'll be dropping my episodes here. Here's number 1:

Seems very close to what I was describing above. The Helix model doesn't really sound very good to me, at least compared to other emulations and also the real amp's I've heard, I think it's just a bad example of a VH4 for my tastes. The top and bottom end are a lot weaker and it needs more exaggerated settings to work well. I think it's just down to the particular model they have.

Setting presence to 10, and lowering the bias and MV opens it up a bit but there's still a limit to what you can do with it.

Do we need to wait for a new video to drop for you to share your opinions on other emulations? I've already sat through a couple of ads just to see your thoughts on this one. I dont mind, but it would be cool to discuss more openly than only sitting through videos

 

[GuitarJon]

Seems very close to what I was describing above. The Helix model doesn't really sound very good to me, at least compared to other emulations and also the real amp's I've heard, I think it's just a bad example of a VH4 for my tastes. The top and bottom end are a lot weaker and it needs more exaggerated settings to work well. I think it's just down to the particular model they have.

Setting presence to 10, and lowering the bias and MV opens it up a bit but there's still a limit to what you can do with it.

Do we need to wait for a new video to drop for you to share your opinions on other emulations? I've already sat through a couple of ads just to see your thoughts on this one. I dont mind, but it would be cool to discuss more openly than only sitting through videos

Anything specific you'd like to know?

As for this Helix model, as I mentioned I think it sounds pretty good! Just doesn't come close enough to that typical VH4 sound imho

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Anything specific you'd like to know?

Well, I think VH4's just vary a lot amp to amp. They've been in production for decades and there are all kinds of variations on the circuit out there. So I think I would expect some amount of deviation from all amps and models, unless we have the specific circuit checked. Annoyingly, it's just one of those amps.

I guess the STL Amphub model should be a similar year to yours, so that would be interesting to see if it's closer. I'm not sure on what year the Fractal Silverface model is based on either, but it sounds a bit brighter than the Blueface, and I imagine that'll be somewhat close. My gut feeling would be that one can get close, but may require some tweaks to the negative feedback, presence circuit, power amp valves and bias.

Which sims have you tested? They all seem quite different to me, so my guess would be one of them should be somewhat close to your specific amp. Im interested to know which one is most similar to yours in behaviour and tone.

As for this Helix model, as I mentioned I think it sounds pretty good! Just doesn't come close enough to that typical VH4 sound imho

IMO it sounds like a VH4, but if there was 5 different VH4's sat in a row, the Helix one probably has least of the qualities I like in a VH4. Just the way it goes sometimes.

 

[Dimiguitar]

Any chance of a commercial VH4 pack from you?

I had matched a VH4 with the fractal models (silver) very well. Some settings had to be very different though.

But it was another story with a different VH4. Had tonex captures done of that and prefer the results to the previous VH4 tones or anything I was able to coax out the fractal sims.

But anyway. I'm on the lookout for such captures. Part of the reason is how different these amps can be from one another.

 

[GuitarJon]

Well, I think VH4's just vary a lot amp to amp. They've been in production for decades and there are all kinds of variations on the circuit out there. So I think I would expect some amount of deviation from all amps and models, unless we have the specific circuit checked. Annoyingly, it's just one of those amps.

I guess the STL Amphub model should be a similar year to yours, so that would be interesting to see if it's closer. I'm not sure on what year the Fractal Silverface model is based on either, but it sounds a bit brighter than the Blueface, and I imagine that'll be somewhat close. My gut feeling would be that one can get close, but may require some tweaks to the negative feedback, presence circuit, power amp valves and bias.

Which sims have you tested? They all seem quite different to me, so my guess would be one of them should be somewhat close to your specific amp. Im interested to know which one is most similar to yours in behaviour and tone.

IMO it sounds like a VH4, but if there was 5 different VH4's sat in a row, the Helix one probably has least of the qualities I like in a VH4. Just the way it goes sometimes.

These are the episodes:

1. Helix Stadium XL
2. Fractal AM4
3. Fender Tone Master Pro
4. Quad Cortex
6. Tonex

I don't have plans to do more but who knows... I've never tried anything from STL. Is it good stuff?

 

[JiveTurkey]

Well, I think VH4's just vary a lot amp to amp. They've been in production for decades and there are all kinds of variations on the circuit out there. So I think I would expect some amount of deviation from all amps and models, unless we have the specific circuit checked. Annoyingly, it's just one of those amps.

I guess the STL Amphub model should be a similar year to yours, so that would be interesting to see if it's closer. I'm not sure on what year the Fractal Silverface model is based on either, but it sounds a bit brighter than the Blueface, and I imagine that'll be somewhat close. My gut feeling would be that one can get close, but may require some tweaks to the negative feedback, presence circuit, power amp valves and bias.

Which sims have you tested? They all seem quite different to me, so my guess would be one of them should be somewhat close to your specific amp. Im interested to know which one is most similar to yours in behaviour and tone.

IMO it sounds like a VH4, but if there was 5 different VH4's sat in a row, the Helix one probably has least of the qualities I like in a VH4. Just the way it goes sometimes.

I like the Fractal and Borland clips you did the best

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Is it good stuff?

Yeah, they do some very good stuff. Especially for high gain amps. Lots in there that other companies haven’t modelled yet (Krank’s, JSX, PRS MT15, Framus etc). The Middleton, Lasse Lammert and Borland Tonalities are great too. I’m not personally huge on their IR’s, and their plugins need a hotter input level than say NDSP/Line 6 etc. You have to also bypass the cabinets in the correct way to preserve SIC interactions if using external IR’s.

I’d imagine for your tastes you’d like them a lot - loads of killer high gain stuff.

Their (newer) capture tech inside tonehub is pretty much on par with ToneX V2 and NAM. The older capture tech was essentially a software Kemper.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I like the Fractal and Borland clips you did the best

My favourites too out of the emulations. Fractal Silver>>>>Blue

 

[JiveTurkey]

My favourites too out of the emulations. Fractal Silver>>>>Blue

I did a quick FM3 settings match yesterday to your screenshot (using the 412 Rectifier straight dynacab) through my new Yamaha floor wedge and it was massive sounding \m/

 

[deadpool_25]

I’ve never played the real thing and now I think I’m glad of that. I might have been disappointed vs my (probably unrealistic) expectations lol.

My introduction to these has been via Adam Jones. I may have never heard his VH4 on its own outside of a VIP thing he did. And I don’t remember the actual tone that well considering I was about 6 feet from Adam and 15 feet from the amp and too focused on the discussion to really internalize the tones. It was a Blue and I did get a couple good pics of the amp that day.

I recently got into some videos by Joey Jones who did some stuff about dialing in a great tone with a Tele. He likes to play in drop/low tunings and was playing blues rock through a Fractal VH4 sim. I remember him mentioning how the dark amp complemented the brightness of the guitar nicely. I was really liking those tones.

These are the episodes:

…
4. Quad Cortex
…

Model or capture or both? This has me interested in checking out some V2 captures to see if anything stands out as particularly excellent.