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[spawnofthesith]

Yup you used to be able to order off a menu - the base model and then effectively add factory options like simul class, GEQ, verb toppings. It’s insane by modern standards.

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We know Gibson isn’t interested in being our friend. They’re here for dollars. They’ve found a new revenue stream and I fully expect them to be reissuing Randall and Mike B’s underwear before this is over.

The IIA, IIB, IIC, IIC+, IIC++ all use the same headshell and chassis and may even be able to be built off that one PCB. If there’s enough action expect Gibson to keep running with it. These are easy to build, lots of interchangeable parts.

As much as they would have a blast reissuing the III no stripe, black stripe, red stripe, purple stripe, blue stripe, and green stripe variants, I don’t think they can price them competitively against the vintage models. There isn’t as much scarcity to take advantage of either the III or IV.

I suspect the 90s Recto reissue is less successful than the IIC+ for similar reasons. I can buy an OG 1997 revision G and get it a cap job and new tubes for $1500 less than a new reissue.

Gibson money grab? Sure. But assuming the new HRG is priced similarly to the current IIc+, inflation adjusted it’s almost $2k more affordable than an OG at its time…. Give or take some hundreds for the mods but still…

 

[spawnofthesith]

Fully loaded HRG II head in today’s dollars if the inflation metrics are to be believed would be about $5.1k in 2025 dollars

 

[EOengineer]

Gibson money grab? Sure. But assuming the new HRG is priced similarly to the current IIc+, inflation adjusted it’s almost $2k more affordable than an OG at its time…. Give or take some hundreds for the mods but still…

I actually don’t think the IIC+ is egregious at the $3500 they are listing them for. The IIC++ felt pretty gouge to me.

The Recto reissue pricing is worse IMO, not necessarily that I think they are gouging, but because that reissue at that price doesn’t make sense in the current market, US at least. The IIC+ reissue at least makes that amp more accessible to people chasing it.

 

[László]

I fluctuate on whether I think Simul Class is more of a feel thing than a tone thing, or perhaps snake oil altogether. I love a couple products I own that have it, so I keep going back to it when it’s available.

If I ever grab a IIC+, it will be Simul Class too.

If it's snake oil, I guess I'll drink it along with the kool-aid.

Seriously though, I'm over the moon about the Mark VII. The amp sounds legit to me no matter how I set it, so I'm not motivated to look beyond what I'm hearing and feeling.

I'm currently going back and forth on whether to take a few pedals off my pedalboard and/or stuff the ones I can under the shelf, so I can put the Mark's foot switch on one of the shelves. Would save a little floor space in the amp recording area of my studio; the drawback is at least a couple of pedals I do like would have to go.

On the other hand, the amp does so many things I might not need everything on the pedalboard. In fact, I probably don't need all three Mesas, except I love them all. Selling one would be like selling a child!

 

[László]

I actually don’t think the IIC+ is egregious at the $3500 they are listing them for.

I agree; it's a high end amp. Seems in the range of what other high end amps are going for these days.

 

[Genghis]

I fluctuate on whether I think Simul Class is more of a feel thing than a tone thing, or perhaps snake oil altogether. I love a couple products I own that have it, so I keep going back to it when it’s available.

If I ever grab a IIC+, it will be Simul Class too.

Not sure how much Simulclass has to do with it, but I love it in my IIC+. Only other Mark I have to compare it to is the JP2C and it feels better and for most things sounds better than the JP2C.

 

[László]

Not sure how much Simulclass has to do with it, but I love it in my IIC+.

I'd have to guess it's a wonderful amp, just based on what I've heard. I haven't had the experience of playing through one of the reissues, but I'm looking forward to trying one.

 

[gearJunkie]

I don't think that's correct. But I don't claim special expertise and I'm sure someone else will chime in with better technical info.

My info is in Simul-class, Class A and Class AB run simultaneously; two tubes for each type of operation, not just employing different bias.

@laxu is also correct, since Class A uses a fixed bias and Class A/B is cathode biased.

 

[László]

@laxu is also correct, since Class A uses a fixed bias and Class A/B is cathode biased.

Actually, that's backwards.

Class A amps are cathode biased, and A/B is fixed bias (on most amps except Mesas this means the bias can be adjusted which is kind of confusing).

However there's significantly more to Class A vs A/B than bias; the biases are different types. One type of bias is negative (AB) the other is positive (A). The circuit design is different, too.

In an A/B design with two tubes, one tube shuts off as the waveform nears the zero crossing point while the other tube takes over. So you could say the tubes are kinda handing off the signal to one another.

In Class A with two tubes, there's current flowing through both tubes all the time. So as I understand it, the tube doesn't have to come from a shut down state to an "on" state. The result is usually the transients being a little faster and as a result, there's a different feel and sound. The tradeoff is lower power and lots of heat.

I tend to like Class A microphone preamps and the wonderful Avalon U5 direct box is also Class A. It can sound really great when done right.

Again, my knowledge is limited. This is the extent of what I know (or at least think is correct).

The important thing is, of course, whether an amp sounds good. If it does, I don't worry about this kind of thing. It's just interesting as a topic of discussion.

 

[gearJunkie]

Actually, that's backwards.

yeah, I got that backwards, but class A and AB typically utilize different biasing methods. That was the point I was trying to make.

 

[Marco2073]

Not sure how much Simulclass has to do with it, but I love it in my IIC+. Only other Mark I have to compare it to is the JP2C and it feels better and for most things sounds better than the JP2C.

It's incredible how you can read comments around that say exactly the opposite... like everything else, it's always a matter of personal taste..

 

[László]

yeah, I got that backwards, but class A and AB typically utilize different biasing methods. That was the point I was trying to make.

It was a good point! Plus you're correct, different biasing.

My long reply about the other differences were posted because try as I might, I can't seem to make myself STFU. I need some lessons in how to rein in my never-ending commentary!

 

[László]

it's always a matter of personal taste..

I always say there is no 'best' or 'better'; there's only what works best for the individual.

Variety of tones, playing styles, skill levels, etc,, makes the world much more interesting. Not that I wouldn't like to play as well as the shooters on this forum!

 

[spawnofthesith]

How long before we get the non-GEQ 60 watt RIs?

Mike B. Is on record saying those have a special sauce to ‘em

 

[László]

Another day, another Mark VII revelation...

Today I took out the PRS McCarty Singlecut, a private stock model similar to their 594, but different from that and their earlier 2 piece bridge Singlecuts, like the 245 or SC58. The body is a little thicker without the belly cut, and the fretboard is Madagascar rosewood that sounds a little more 'caramel' to me than IRW or BRW. It's a warm and smooth sounding instrument.

The pickups are PRS-modded 57/08s, and the guitar has more bottom end push than the DGT that's become my go-to.

I'm getting more comfortable having some idea where the amp's controls will take me, and feel more confident handling them. I wanted to try my favorite pedals and compare them to the amp set up to do similar things.

Welp, the Mark VII don't need no stinkin' pedals!

When the gain is up a little bit the amp's own sounds work better for me. Three channels and plethora of controls deliver a terrific and satisfying variety all by themselves. I think the amp sounds better than any of the pedal/amp combinations. In this, it reminds me of my old Tremoverb and Mark V, amps that I never used pedals with.

In addition, the channels respond to the guitar's volume and tone controls about as well as my single-channel amps, and that's also a welcome thing.

Another thing I found:

With a bit more gain than I've had on it since getting the amp, I like it better with a ported back PRS David Grissom pine cabinet with V-30s than the Black Shadow 90s in the Lone Star; I also like it with a Boogie 4x10 loaded with Creambacks.

Of the above two, I'm not sure which I like more. I have a closed back Recto sized PRS baltic birch cab with V-30s, but it worked less well for me than the ported cab or open back 4x10.

Finally, NOS tubes similar to what I use in the other amps should benefit the Mark VII. I have an RCA 7025 I haven't taken out of the box yet for V1, and another RCA for V2, but I need some of the JAN-GE and Siemens 12AX7s I use in my other Mesas, so I think I'll wait to install the RCAs and re-tube the whole thing at once. It'll take about $500 worth of these so it may be a minute before I have the extra budget to do this.