TGF Official Amp Mesa Boogie Mark series. Join the fun and get one today!

[Mikael Dez]

Some MarkIV love from me to you!

That is CLEAN

 

[AlbertA]

Maybe prototype hetfield signature?

View attachment 51122


If you hyper zoom on the input jack looks like it says JH

I wonder what the price target was and what was a reasonable price to sell it at. But a Jazz Chorus into the same speaker cab as for the dirty sounds? Ummm I don't know about that one - unless it also had multiple outputs?

 

[EOengineer]

I wonder what the price target was and what was a reasonable price to sell it at. But a Jazz Chorus into the same speaker cab as for the dirty sounds? Ummm I don't know about that one - unless it also had multiple outputs?

I was thinking the same thing. The speakers and cab are a part of the jc120 thing. I know there are heads but I never notice anyone using them. There might be pictures of Hets rig with a 120 head somewhere. Hard to say.

 

[László]

Some MarkIV love from me to you!

Wow!

That is one beautiful amp (both in looks and sound). I love that it's in such mint condition, too.

 

[Tanax]

Word on the street is that Mesa is releasing a IIC+ HRG reissue next. Coming in December but someone apparently already got it.
Is it really a big difference between HRG and DRG?

Question is also if they will keep selling the DRG or if that will be dropped once the HRG is released.

 

[laxu]

Word on the street is that Mesa is releasing a IIC+ HRG reissue next. Coming in December but someone apparently already got it.
Is it really a big difference between HRG and DRG?

Question is also if they will keep selling the DRG or if that will be dropped once the HRG is released.

So DRG = 60W, HRG = 100W, right?

Sounds like Gibson has started squeezing the shit out of Mesa's legacy.

 

[Tanax]

So DRG = 60W, HRG = 100W, right?

Sounds like Gibson has started squeezing the shit out of Mesa's legacy.

No, SRG = 60W. DRG is the Simul-Class thing at 75W. HRG is 100W, yes.
Not sure what the sonic differences between them though.

Yes for sure. On the other hand, this is also kind of what many many players want. The modern stuff have a lot of convenient things, but still many players want the vintage/classic stuff, either for sound, non-simplified controls (i.e. exposed input drive and all the pull pots) or just the look of it. Some want it for status.

I think they'll reissue probably the entire Mark series.

 

[DISTORT6]

That is CLEAN

Wow!

That is one beautiful amp (both in looks and sound). I love that it's in such mint condition, too.

It's led a very pampered life.

 

[laxu]

No, SRG = 60W. DRG is the Simul-Class thing at 75W. HRG is 100W, yes.
Not sure what the sonic differences between them though.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that Simul-Class is basically running each pair of power tubes with a different bias and then using them together. HRG likely configures them all for maximum output power.

I expect a lot of these variants of the IIC were just something that was relatively easy for Mesa to offer as options and to provide different price ranges. It seems you had a base price and could choose "performance options" like the GEQ, reverb and 100W option.

I'd guess the effect of 75W vs 100W is about the same as toggling the power settings on my Mark V, namely slight differences in how punchy it sounds, how it feels to play etc.

Yes for sure. On the other hand, this is also kind of what many many players want. The modern stuff have a lot of convenient things, but still many players want the vintage/classic stuff, either for sound, non-simplified controls (i.e. exposed input drive and all the pull pots) or just the look of it. Some want it for status.

I think they'll reissue probably the entire Mark series.

I think there were enough people who wanted a legit IIC+ reissue, considering the cost of the originals and how the V/VII are different beasts. But releasing a IIC++ limited edition and a 100W version shortly after seems like pulling the rug under those people, who might've wanted the IIC++ or 100W if it was originally offered.

With reissues you run into dumb issues like "it has to be done like the original" rather than re-imagined to e.g include IIC++ mod on a switch or maybe a 3-way 100W/Simul-Class/Class A switch. If it's not like the original then there's going to be some jackass complaining how all those things "rob tone" or "don't sound like the real $6-8K vintage original".

I don't see there being enough people who specifically want a Mark III reissue. Most people buy the originals because they don't cost a ton compared to the vintage IIC models. Will that stop Gibson from making a reissue? Most likely not.

 

[EOengineer]

I expect a lot of these variants of the IIC were just something that was relatively easy for Mesa to offer as options and to provide different price ranges. It seems you had a base price and could choose "performance options" like the GEQ, reverb and 100W option.

Yup you used to be able to order off a menu - the base model and then effectively add factory options like simul class, GEQ, verb toppings. It’s insane by modern standards.

I'd guess the effect of 75W vs 100W is about the same as toggling the power settings on my Mark V, namely slight differences in how punchy it sounds, how it feels to play etc.


I think there were enough people who wanted a legit IIC+ reissue, considering the cost of the originals and how the V/VII are different beasts. But releasing a IIC++ limited edition and a 100W version shortly after seems like pulling the rug under those people, who might've wanted the IIC++ or 100W if it was originally offered.

We know Gibson isn’t interested in being our friend. They’re here for dollars. They’ve found a new revenue stream and I fully expect them to be reissuing Randall and Mike B’s underwear before this is over.

The IIA, IIB, IIC, IIC+, IIC++ all use the same headshell and chassis and may even be able to be built off that one PCB. If there’s enough action expect Gibson to keep running with it. These are easy to build, lots of interchangeable parts.

As much as they would have a blast reissuing the III no stripe, black stripe, red stripe, purple stripe, blue stripe, and green stripe variants, I don’t think they can price them competitively against the vintage models. There isn’t as much scarcity to take advantage of either the III or IV.

I suspect the 90s Recto reissue is less successful than the IIC+ for similar reasons. I can buy an OG 1997 revision G and get it a cap job and new tubes for $1500 less than a new reissue.

 

[Tanax]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that Simul-Class is basically running each pair of power tubes with a different bias and then using them together. HRG likely configures them all for maximum output power.

I expect a lot of these variants of the IIC were just something that was relatively easy for Mesa to offer as options and to provide different price ranges. It seems you had a base price and could choose "performance options" like the GEQ, reverb and 100W option.

I'd guess the effect of 75W vs 100W is about the same as toggling the power settings on my Mark V, namely slight differences in how punchy it sounds, how it feels to play etc.


I think there were enough people who wanted a legit IIC+ reissue, considering the cost of the originals and how the V/VII are different beasts. But releasing a IIC++ limited edition and a 100W version shortly after seems like pulling the rug under those people, who might've wanted the IIC++ or 100W if it was originally offered.

With reissues you run into dumb issues like "it has to be done like the original" rather than re-imagined to e.g include IIC++ mod on a switch or maybe a 3-way 100W/Simul-Class/Class A switch. If it's not like the original then there's going to be some jackass complaining how all those things "rob tone" or "don't sound like the real $6-8K vintage original".

I don't see there being enough people who specifically want a Mark III reissue. Most people buy the originals because they don't cost a ton compared to the vintage IIC models. Will that stop Gibson from making a reissue? Most likely not.

I agree. I'm sure we'll see more reissues. Question is only what and when.

Yup you used to be able to order off a menu - the base model and then effectively add factory options like simul class, GEQ, verb toppings. It’s insane by modern standards.

View attachment 51238


We know Gibson isn’t interested in being our friend. They’re here for dollars. They’ve found a new revenue stream and I fully expect them to be reissuing Randall and Mike B’s underwear before this is over.

The IIA, IIB, IIC, IIC+, IIC++ all use the same headshell and chassis and may even be able to be built off that one PCB. If there’s enough action expect Gibson to keep running with it. These are easy to build, lots of interchangeable parts.

As much as they would have a blast reissuing the III no stripe, black stripe, red stripe, purple stripe, blue stripe, and green stripe variants, I don’t think they can price them competitively against the vintage models. There isn’t as much scarcity to take advantage of either the III or IV.

I suspect the 90s Recto reissue is less successful than the IIC+ for similar reasons. I can buy an OG 1997 revision G and get it a cap job and new tubes for $1500 less than a new reissue.

In Europe at least, I wouldn't buy a second hand Mesa that old. Some of them didn't come with EU plug, or they're some weird 110V instead of the normal. So I'd buy the reissue all days of the week. But of course, when they start to reissuing minute differences, that's a bit overboard. But that's also the reason I'd love for them to reissue the IV (and the III) because I'd never ever buy those second hand here.

I mean, to be honest, I can just see them in 1-2 years release a IIC+ with switchable ++ so that everyone who got either the + or the ++ feel the need to upgrade again.

 

[EOengineer]

I agree. I'm sure we'll see more reissues. Question is only what and when.



In Europe at least, I wouldn't buy a second hand Mesa that old. Some of them didn't come with EU plug, or they're some weird 110V instead of the normal. So I'd buy the reissue all days of the week. But of course, when they start to reissuing minute differences, that's a bit overboard. But that's also the reason I'd love for them to reissue the IV (and the III) because I'd never ever buy those second hand here.

I mean, to be honest, I can just see them in 1-2 years release a IIC+ with switchable ++ so that everyone who got either the + or the ++ feel the need to upgrade again.

That’s a good point. We’re spoiled stateside.

 

[Tanax]

That’s a good point. We’re spoiled stateside.

Well, we're spoiled for vintage Marshall's, so .. give and take I guess

 

[DISTORT6]

Yup you used to be able to order off a menu - the base model and then effectively add factory options like simul class, GEQ, verb toppings. It’s insane by modern standards.

View attachment 51238


We know Gibson isn’t interested in being our friend. They’re here for dollars. They’ve found a new revenue stream and I fully expect them to be reissuing Randall and Mike B’s underwear before this is over.

The IIA, IIB, IIC, IIC+, IIC++ all use the same headshell and chassis and may even be able to be built off that one PCB. If there’s enough action expect Gibson to keep running with it. These are easy to build, lots of interchangeable parts.

As much as they would have a blast reissuing the III no stripe, black stripe, red stripe, purple stripe, blue stripe, and green stripe variants, I don’t think they can price them competitively against the vintage models. There isn’t as much scarcity to take advantage of either the III or IV.

I suspect the 90s Recto reissue is less successful than the IIC+ for similar reasons. I can buy an OG 1997 revision G and get it a cap job and new tubes for $1500 less than a new reissue.

That's a loooong time to be put on hold!

 

[EOengineer]

That's a loooong time to be put on hold!

Back ordered.

 

[DISTORT6]

Back ordered.

I would have to switch ears about a month in.

 

[László]

It's led a very pampered life.

I pamper my amps, too!

 

[László]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that Simul-Class is basically running each pair of power tubes with a different bias and then using them together. HRG likely configures them all for maximum output power.

I don't think that's correct. But I don't claim special expertise and I'm sure someone else will chime in with better technical info.

My info is in Simul-class, Class A and Class AB run simultaneously; two tubes for each type of operation, not just employing different bias. Here's my non tech understanding:

To run in Class A, the output tubes are always conducting; to run in Class A/B, the output tubes are conducting for part of the cycle; and running the tubes in pentode and triode are different operations as well. Pentode adds a screen grid and a suppressor grid, and goodness knows what else is required to make this all work.

So Simul-class means that the two sets of tubes are operating independently and blended somehow (I have no idea how this takes place, I just know that it does).

Pentode and triode run the tubes and circuits differently as well. Bringing this into Mesa-specific territory, here's what the Mark VII manual says about the various power arrangements:

"3 wiring styles; 90 Watts Simul-Class™, whereby two of the power tubes run in Class A and two run in Class A/B, 45 Watts Class A Pentode, and 25 Watts Class A Triode."

If my admittedly superficial understanding is correct, in each method of operating the tubes is basically different from simply running output tubes at different biases.

 

[László]

So...I decided to do a quick search on pentodes and triodes. I dunno if this article is technically correct, but it seems to gibe with what I've been told about pentode and triode operation. The 6L6 can be operated either way, which is an advantage for 6L6 tubes.

Apparently this dual operation is carried out in a Mesa by the circuit. However I don't know how this magic takes place. I just believe that it does and let the amp do the hard 'thinking'!

The difference between pentode and triode: diving into the world of tube amplifiers

papatube.audio

 

[EOengineer]

I fluctuate on whether I think Simul Class is more of a feel thing than a tone thing, or perhaps snake oil altogether. I love a couple products I own that have it, so I keep going back to it when it’s available.

If I ever grab a IIC+, it will be Simul Class too.