Step 1 of GAS…. “Research”

It’s very much a YMMV situation. It has its issues but they’re not issues everyone is going to care about. Flipside, it has its strengths some of which are legitimately unique. I love mine, full stop.

Fair point. Not everybody has the same criteria or will be as irrirated by not-built-in-power-supplies like me.

@mbenigni So in the spirit of pouring more gas on the... um... GAS, what is it that you particularly love about the QC?

When you fire it up and plug in, what are the things that excite you as you are about to play?
 
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Fair point. Not everybody has the same criteria or will be as irrirated by not-built-in-power-supplies like me.

@mbenigni So in the spirit of pouring more gas on the... um... GAS, what is it that you particularly love about the QC?

When you fire it up and plug in, what are the things that excite as you are about to play?
Calling it a night shortly, but I’ll share my thoughts in the morning, when I have a proper QWERTY keyboard in front of me. :)
 
@KingsXJJ

I’ve long since given up Neural TrackerTM. lol

Here is the bottom line. They released the QC 6-9 months too soon. They rushed it out the door, which caused some really base level features to not be in the box at launch, and some extremely uneven modeling quality for amps and effects that made the launch.

But, everything they’ve released since launch has been ace. All the models (Amps and effects) they’ve dropped since launch are really good. The looper is extremely good and well thought out. You can tell post launch, when left to just “get it right”, they actually can release really consistently good models and features.

Albeit, at an absolutely glacial pace.

The UI, form factor, and wireless capabilities are absolutely fantastic. The file management, diversity/quantity of effects, and lack of plug-in integration are the downsides. (The latter of which may or may not move the needle depending on whether you already own plugins, and whether those tones are not, to some degree, covered by what’s already in the box)

I dumped mine a few months ago while you could still get big used prices for them, but if they are able to land the plane with the remaining Prelaunch 1.0 features id likely buy it again, unless something more compelling gets brought to market in the interim.

Give it a spin and return it if you don’t like it.
 
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When you fire it up and plug in, what are the things that excite you as you are about to play?
I actually did just fire mine up, and I am, theoretically, about to play, so I should try to be quick. (I failed LOL.)

A little background: I was an early adopter of Kemper way back when. I thought it sounded great, but the feature set was all wrong for me. Even after I'd put an aftermarket power amp in the back, I just couldn't sort out a live rig that made any sense. Toaster + cabinet + footcontroller was kind of a handful for a quick night out, and it was hard to put together a footcontroller that met my needs. (Eventually Kemper released their own, but it, too, lacked features I needed, and was expensive.) This, the fixed signal path, and the limited I/O - largely owing to the absence of USB audio/MIDI - made too many important and/or fun things impossible. And the UI never resonated for me. I liked the "pretty much like an amp head" ethos, but it always felt like every button was mysteriously on the opposite side of where my hands were, my hands were always in the way of the screen, etc.

When Helix Floor was announced I immediately jumped on board. Nearly all the issues I had with Kemper were instantly resolved. Tons of I/O (including multitrack USB audio and MIDI woot!), a great user interface, flexible internal routing, integrated footcontroller with exceptional programmability. I loved Helix then and I still do. But the Floor is enormous, making it impractical for some studio applications (i.e. desktop), and more importantly: I became instantly "internet famous" for hating a weird texture in the amp modeling (the internet infamous "squirrely bits".)

The only reason I bothered ordering a QC (which I thought was a bit spendy even at $1600) was because I heard a rumor that the price was going up, and Sweetwater assured me they'd honor their return policy if I didn't dig it. Based on all I'd read at [the other place] my expectations were low. But honestly, I took such an instant liking to the sound and the UI, that I decided to remain a QC user despite the fact that the first unit I received was defective. So, wow, long introduction... why do I like it?

Short answer: form factor, UI, sound.

If it doesn't sound better than Helix per se, then I'll at least say that it's easier to make it sound good. I'd also be tempted to say that it sounds better than Kemper, but I'll stop short of that, since I haven't had a Kemper of my own in many years. I'll leave to someone who can run them side by side to make that call. Regardless, the QC captures sound great IMO, and the models are a lot of fun on account of the accurate, interactive controls. Which starts to blur the line between sound and...

UI: Apart from the whack-a-mole Capture hunt, which is a literally absurd implementation, I just love the UI. No, the touchscreen isn't always perfect, and yes, the edit view is highly reminiscent of the Helix edit view. But I wouldn't have wanted or expected a major deviation from something that already made sense; it's all about small refinements from here. Overall the UI has a very "shallow" organization that makes it extremely fast and easy to use. HX is very good in terms of minimizing deep menu diving; CorOS takes this even further:

- One swipe up from edit view at any time gets you all of your I/O settings in one screen with a graphical depiction that gets things done faster than reading through half a dozen similar text elements. (I hope this never changes significantly.)

- In the Edit view, touching an effect block almost always displays all of its parameters, with a dedicated hardware endoder for every one of them. No page left/right to get the right parameter associated with an encoder, etc. To me, this is huge. (I do wish blocks could be reordered while in this view; not sure why NDSP chose to make the parameters panel "modal".)

Lots of talk about whether the touchscreen is effectively implemented here, or whether touchscreens are desirable in the first place. This misses the point where the QC is concerned. It's not about whether you like touchscreens; it's about how a touchscreen complements 11 physical encoders. See previous point about all of the params being visible at once, and being able to tweak any of them with its own dedicated, physical controller. Add to this the fact that some params, e.g. channel switches, etc. are better suited to binary input, where a tap of the screen is more intuitive, and best of both worlds are available. And then there are the very small refinements that genuinely help, like encoder velocity/acceleration being tuned properly. It still takes me a minute or two to ratchet a Gain block down to -inf dB on an HX Stomp, which can be very tedious. On CorOS I can do it with one swipe on the touch screen, or a fast half-turn on an encoder.

Form-factor... Yes, it's too small for some people; I can appreciate that. I don't think I'd go "into battle" expecting or needing to use the back row of footswitches either. But I don't see any concern with the front row. Between these and preset up/down, I think a resourceful/ flexible player could find solutions. Particularly if the back row were relegated to the sorts of tasks you can perform mindfully between songs. For me: it's a great size for a desk, where the aforementioned UI strengths really come to light. It’s small enough for a pedal board, where you can leverage captures alongside your fave FX stomps. (Weren't we all clamoring for Kemper to provide exactly the same?) And if you can deal with the spacing, it has sufficient footswitches to serve as an all-in-one for the right sort of gig.

Really failed to be brief, and I'll probably be back editing this over the course of the next hour or so. :)


P.S. I never even got around to mentioning the parametric EQs with draggable nodes on touchscreen. Wow!
 
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For me - the captures weren’t a big draw as I don’t have an amp collection.
I don't get this at all. As with Kemper's profiles, captures are a big draw to me because I don't have a big amp collection - and my income dictates that I probably never will. Captures allow me to satisfy my curiosity by test driving exotic/ esoteric/ oddball amps other people capture and upload.
 
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I actually did just fire mine up, and I am, theoretically, about to play, so I should try to be quick. (I failed LOL.)

A little background: I was an early adopter of Kemper way back when. I thought it sounded great, but the feature set was all wrong for me. Even after I'd put an aftermarket power amp in the back, I just couldn't sort out a live rig that made any sense. Toaster + cabinet + footcontroller was kind of a handful for a quick night out, and it was hard to put together a footcontroller that met my needs. (Eventually Kemper released their own, but it, too, lacked features I needed, and was expensive.) This, the fixed signal path, and the limited I/O - largely owing to the absence of USB audio/MIDI - made too many important and/or fun things impossible. And the UI never resonated for me. I liked the "pretty much like an amp head" ethos, but it always felt like every button was mysteriously on the opposite side of where my hands were, my hands were always in the way of the screen, etc.

When Helix Floor was announced I immediately jumped on board. Nearly all the issues I had with Kemper were instantly resolved. Tons of I/O (including multitrack USB audio and MIDI woot!), a great user interface, flexible internal routing, integrated footcontroller with exceptional programmability. I loved Helix then and I still do. But the Floor is enormous, making it impractical for some studio applications (i.e. desktop), and more importantly: I became instantly "internet famous" for hating a weird texture in the amp modeling (the internet infamous "squirrely bits".)

The only reason I bothered ordering a QC (which I thought was a bit spendy even at $1600) was because I heard a rumor that the price was going up, and Sweetwater assured me they'd honor their return policy if I didn't dig. Based on all I'd read at [the other place] my expectations were low. Honestly, I took such an instant liking to the sound and the UI, that I decided to remain a QC user despite the fact that the first unit I received was defective. So, wow, long introduction... why do I like it.

Short answer: form factor, UI, sound.

If it doesn't sound better than Helix per se, then I'll at least say that it's easier to make it sound good. I'd also be tempted to say that it sounds better than Kemper, but I'll stop short of that, since I haven't had a Kemper of my own in many years. I'll leave to someone who can run them side by side to make that call. Regardless, the QC captures sound great IMO, and the models are a lot of fun on account of the accurate, interactive controls. Which starts to blur the line between sound and...

UI: Apart from the whack-a-mole Capture hunt, which is literally absurd implementation, I just love the UI. No the touchscreen isn't always perfect, and yes, the edit view is highly reminiscent of the Helix edit view. But I wouldn't have wanted or expected a major deviation from something that already made sense; it's all about small refinements from here. Overall the UI has a very "shallow" organization that makes it extremely fast and easy to use. HX is very good in terms of minimizing deep menu diving; CorOS takes this even further:

- One swipe up from edit view at any time gets you all of your I/O settings in one screen with a graphical depiction that gets things done faster than reading through half a dozen similar text elements. (I hope this never changes significantly.)

- In the Edit view, touching an effect block almost always displays all of its parameters, with a dedicated hardware endoder for every one of them. No page left/right to get the right parameter associated with an encoder, etc. To me, this is huge. (I do wish blocks could be reordered in this view; not sure why NDSP chose to make the parameters pan "modal".)

- Lots of talk about whether the touchscreen is effectively implemented here, or whether touchscreens are desirable in the first place. This misses the point where the QC is concerned. It's not about whether you like touchscreens; it's about how a touchscreen complements 11 physical encoders. See previous point about all of the params being visible at once, and being able to tweak any of them with a physical component. Add to this the fact that some params, e.g. channel switches, etc. are better suited to binary input, where a tap of the screen is more intuitive, and best of both worlds are available. And then there are the very small refinements that genuinely help, like encoder velocity/acceleration being tuned properly. It still takes me a minute or two to ratchet a Gain block down to -inf dB on an HX Stomp, which can be very tedious. On CorOS I can do it with one swipe on the touch screen, or a fast half-turn on an encoder.

- Form-factor. Yes, it's too small for some people; I can appreciate that. I don't think I'd go "into battle" expecting or needing to use the back row of footswitches either. But I don't see any concern with the front row. Between these and preset up/down, I think a resourceful/ flexible player could find solutions. Particularly if the back row were relegated to the sorts of tasks you can perform mindfully between songs.

Really failed to be brief, and I'll probably be back editing this over the course of the next hour or so. :)

Fantastic and in-depth real-world use write up!

(Is this the longest TGF post so far?).

I've gotta say, you've warmed my feelings towards the unit a little more. Not sure about the company behind it, but this was genuinely useful and has given me a good deal to think about 🤔
 
But, everything they’ve released since launch has been ace. All the models (Amps and effects) they’ve dropped since launch are really good.

6umu69.gif
 
Fantastic and in-depth real-world use write up!

(Is this the longest TGF post so far?).

I've gotta say, you've warmed my feelings towards the unit a little more. Not sure about the company behind it, but this was genuinely useful and has given me a good deal to think about 🤔
Thanks, @jellodog. I wouldn't even try to change anybody's mind about NDSP. They made their own bed LOL. I'm just talking about the ~10"x7"x2" box that's sitting next to me. It's good stuff.
 
Thanks, @jellodog. I wouldn't even try to change anybody's mind about NDSP. They made their own bed LOL. I'm just talking about the ~10"x7"x2" box that's sitting next to me. It's good stuff.

Aye, I see what you mean, and appreciate that. What I found useful in what you've written is that it's your point of view whilst using the device in day to day use.

This is a nice contrast to gear nerds like myself, sat at home, trying to assess purely through tech specs alone.
 
Aye, I know what you mean. What I found useful in what you've written is that it's your point of view whilst using the device in day to day use.

This is a nice contrast to gear nerds like myself, sat at home, trying to assess purely through tech specs alone.
I feel fortunate that I ignored the pre-launch BS (and post-launch BS, for that matter) and went ahead and ordered one. Satisfied my curiosity, and turned out to be a happy surprise. Always best to get direct hands-on time if you can. But failing that, I'd say RT(F)M - it becomes apparent that there's a lot of potential on tap for the asking price.

It does have its issues, though, even setting aside NDSP's broken promises and slow development:

- No decent spring reverb
- Very few wahs
- Relatively small variety of effects across the board (excepting OD/DST, which are complemented by captures anyway)
- A "pop" on power up/down
- A capture selection interface that requires psychic powers (on deck for improvements S O O N but who knows what that might mean??)

Still the best choice available for me. Like I said above, YMMV.
 
I came close to getting a QC, but ultimately went for the FM9T. While I liked the size+ interface of the QC + wifi, I was turned off by the limited effects and amp models, as well as the whole vibe of the company and guy running it. I feel better with the long history of Fractal support and updates and just modeler experience in general.
 
I came close to getting a QC, but ultimately went for the FM9T. While I liked the size+ interface of the QC + wifi, I was turned off by the limited effects and amp models, as well as the whole vibe of the company and guy running it. I feel better with the long history of Fractal support and updates and just modeler experience in general.
Makes sense to me. As I see it, the two products bring different strengths and weaknesses to the table. Fractal is way out ahead in terms of content, and in terms of having a proven history of development and support. QC has the UI and form factor going for it. An intuitive UI is a really big (arguably disproportionate LOL) factor for me, and being a bedroom player, I can afford to indulge that preference. I don't really use all that many modulation effects, and as for amps... captures more than takes up the slack for my purposes.

But I can definitely see where tallying up the pros and cons columns would break the other way for someone else - particularly an active performer.
 
I don't get this at all. As with Kemper's profiles, captures are a big draw to me because I don't have a big amp collection - and my income dictates that I probably never will. Captures allow me to satisfy my curiosity by test driving exotic/ esoteric/ oddball amps other people capture and upload.
That’s fair.

But for me - how many amps does Fractal model? Answer: more than I need or care to explore.

I had a Kemper for a while. I didn’t like searching through amp profiles to find the right settings that they were profiled out. I found I needed to have a low gain, medium gain, and high gain profile of the same amp, and then each of those with different mid settings, etc. because when I started one and tweaked it too far away from how it was set, it didn’t sound right to my ears.

I much prefer to start with a model of the amp. And have the BMT, Gain, Vol, etc., controls work as expected, and then the bonus benefit of being able to mess with sag, presence, and other things, etc.

If I were a gigging musician of original music, and had a few favorite amps and tones I used to make my original music, I would for sure use a Kemper or QC to capture those amps/tones. Or if I had a nice amp collection and wanted to take all my favorite amps/tones on the road, then the Kemper or QC would be a great fit.

But as someone who primarily plays covers and jams, I like the more “bottoms up” approach of selecting an amp/cab and fx, and building my tone that way.

Kind of hard to believe you “don’t get this at all.” I do find it easy to believe you don’t share my opinions or preferences. ;)
 
That’s fair.

But for me - how many amps does Fractal model? Answer: more than I need or care to explore.

I had a Kemper for a while. I didn’t like searching through amp profiles to find the right settings that they were profiled out. I found I needed to have a low gain, medium gain, and high gain profile of the same amp, and then each of those with different mid settings, etc. because when I started one and tweaked it too far away from how it was set, it didn’t sound right to my ears.

I much prefer to start with a model of the amp. And have the BMT, Gain, Vol, etc., controls work as expected, and then the bonus benefit of being able to mess with sag, presence, and other things, etc.

If I were a gigging musician of original music, and had a few favorite amps and tones I used to make my original music, I would for sure use a Kemper or QC to capture those amps/tones. Or if I had a nice amp collection and wanted to take all my favorite amps/tones on the road, then the Kemper or QC would be a great fit.

But as someone who primarily plays covers and jams, I like the more “bottoms up” approach of selecting an amp/cab and fx, and building my tone that way.

Kind of hard to believe you “don’t get this at all.” I do find it easy to believe you don’t share my opinions or preferences. ;)
Sorry - I didn't mean, "I don't get this at all" in quite that way. I'm with you on all of the points you make here: all things being equal (i.e. tone) I'd rather work with a component-level model over a capture/profile any day of the week. At first I thought it was kind of weird and redundant that the QC had both, but now I'm glad it does. I can work with a proper model where available, but still hunt down oddball (or otherwise overlooked) amps where they are not.

All I meant was that not owning a bunch of amps to capture/profile doesn't eliminate the value of having other people's captures/profiles available to you. It's kind of cool hearing/plahying a capture of something unusual that I know I'll never own or encounter in person. Though I agree, separating the wheat from the chaff can be a drag.
 
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Sorry - I didn't mean, "I don't get this at all" in quite that way. I'm with you on all of the points you make here: all things being equal (i.e. tone) I'd rather work with a component-level model over a capture/profile any day of the week. At first I thought it was kind of weird and redundant that the QC had both, but now I'm glad it does. I can work with a proper model where available, but still hunt down oddball (or otherwise overlooked) amps where they are not.

All I meant was that not owning a bunch of amps to capture/profile doesn't eliminate the value of having other people's captures/profilers available to you. It's kind of cool hearing/plahying a capture of something unusual that I know I'll never own or encounter in person. Though I agree, separating the wheat from the chaff can be a drag.
Got it! Makes sense!
:beer
 
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