SS Power Amp build?

[Boudoir Guitar]

Most cheap PA’s are severely lacking at the PA job as well, but if it’s loud people don’t care.

But it’s not just cheap PAs that are using class D. Of course a 1000 watt per side power amp that, once you look at the specs is a rating for a 2 ohm load where it’s moderately questionable whether that thing can drive a 2 ohm load, is going to sound like shit driving a complex signal at loud volumes.

But guitarists more than any other audio/music folks, seem the most convinced that the only way to accurately reproduce their not-very-dynamic signal is with an amp that requires its own circuit breaker. Or a 22 watt tube amp.

 

[newholland]

I don’t get why the PA is fine as class D but it’s somehow lacking magic current reserves and dynamics when driving a simple guitar cab?

i meant moreso that portability/modeling extends to plugging into a PA with mains and monitors adequately, but maybe less so yet with being PA independent- which i definitely know requires some grunt.

 

[newholland]

But it’s not just cheap PAs that are using class D. Of course a 1000 watt per side power amp that, once you look at the specs is a rating for a 2 ohm load where it’s moderately questionable whether that thing can drive a 2 ohm load, is going to sound like shit driving a complex signal at loud volumes.

But guitarists more than any other audio/music folks, seem the most convinced that the only way to accurately reproduce their not-very-dynamic signal is with an amp that requires its own circuit breaker. Or a 22 watt tube amp.

i see what you did there.

ive known a coupla 22watt amps that mayve also needed their own circuit breakers, but moreso in world of willful obscurantist high end audio

 

[Chocol8]

But guitarists more than any other audio/music folks, seem the most convinced that the only way to accurately reproduce their not-very-dynamic signal is with an amp that requires its own circuit breaker. Or a 22 watt tube amp.

I am guessing you have never stood in from of a 4 hole 100 W Marshall cranked into a full stack. Or a Twin Reverb with a pair of JBL’s, or a Hiwatt etc.

A clean guitar signal is actually very dynamic with huge transients. That’s why people are complaining about clipping the input of digital devices in the Tonex thread, and it’s a big part of the “feel” that digital rigs struggle with, especially at high volume.

That 22 watt tube amp with 80+ uf worth of filter caps on a 420+ volt B+ rail can deliver a punch that briefly well exceeds 22 watts. The pocket sized class D amp simply cannot.

Where is DI with his article about the output?

 

[newholland]

Its the latest one they have and the only one of theirs I haven't tried because they are too expensive. LOUD AF. Great for modeling but the weird eq on some of them makes it a bit different as far as pedal platform goes; if thats your jam.

i ultimately decided the juice wasnt really worth the compromised squeeze in the end and just keep a decent dirt box in my cable box. the minute details of overdrive in a live sitch arent worth killing myself over when theres no PA and seldom even getting paid. when i had to fly periodically to practice with bandmates from all over- it was kinda a nice thought, but its easier to err troglodyte than piss and moan about shit nobody but me hears. :lol

 

[newholland]

I am guessing you have never stood in from of a 4 hole 100 W Marshall cranked into a full stack. Or a Twin Reverb with a pair of JBL’s, or a Hiwatt etc.

A clean guitar signal is actually very dynamic with huge transients. That’s why people are complaining about clipping the input of digital devices in the Tonex thread, and it’s a big part of the “feel” that digital rigs struggle with, especially at high volume.

That 22 watt tube amp with 80+ uf worth of filter caps on a 420+ volt B+ rail can deliver a punch that briefly well exceeds 22 watts. The pocket sized class D amp simply cannot.

Where is DI with his arrival about the output?

i aint gonna lie. a hiwatt 103 is worthy of religion and i cant imagine throttlepower on eleventy anything like it coming from a chip amp. i would only so happily be proven wrong cause then i could have that!

 

[Chocol8]

i aint gonna lie. a hiwatt 103 is worthy of religion and i cant imagine throttlepower on eleventy anything like it coming from a chip amp. i would only so happily be proven wrong cause then i could have that!

The size, weight and price might all be unappealing, but this will do it!

MCINTOSH MC 2300 STEREO AMPLIFIER ORIGINAL BOX NICE | eBay

USED.LOCAL PICKUP ONLY. This amplifier has been serviced/tested and sounds great. Shows signs of wear from use but presents very well for its age. Frequency response: 20Hz to 20kHz. Power output: 300 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo), 600 watts into 8Ω (mono).

www.ebay.com

 

[newholland]

The size, weight and price might all be unappealing, but this will do it!

MCINTOSH MC 2300 STEREO AMPLIFIER ORIGINAL BOX NICE | eBay

USED.LOCAL PICKUP ONLY. This amplifier has been serviced/tested and sounds great. Shows signs of wear from use but presents very well for its age. Frequency response: 20Hz to 20kHz. Power output: 300 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo), 600 watts into 8Ω (mono).

www.ebay.com

well size and weight are these days, but the rest ill take :)

 

[Alex Kenivel]

hm. thats basically exactly the condition ive been negotiating as long as ive been playing, but youre talking about roughly ten times the power ive ever used ever- granted i run amps plug and play. i know it cant be a volume issue :lol: so im gonna assume its exclusively a headroom issue.

didnt crown make a class d 1000 watter that was lke ten pounds?

meantime- what 212 on earth is gonna tolerate that kinda wattage if the yam cant get you there? is it possible dispersion might be a bigger issue? or is the midrange off
?

not really tryna give you a rash- but man thats a shitton of headroom.

Rash it up, I don't mind at all! I always try to look at things form all angles and others' perspectives are more than welcome. Devil's advocate takes and all.

Headroom and volume are the issue, at least with the BAM (plus gimpy low end). My cab is 16 ohms so most of that power is cut right in half and then some. The Yamaha gets there no problem, great clean transient response and plenty of volume, I just don't want to carry it around for my guitar rig. I have it in its own rack case as a part of my PA system, mixer in another case.

Then again, my band is only just breaking into the local scene playing these dingy punk shows (my apprehension to carry too much crap anyway) but I'd hope we get better gigs, write some songs that are a little less straightforward, and get to actually use some effects I like. So far the plan is to just rock the Katana until I figure it out.

The Boss Katana head is kicking some ass as a power amp, too. I have the dumb idea of finding an old beat up Kat and removing its power section to rehouse and use. I'm already into my third teardown/repair video

 

[Alex Kenivel]

I glossed over this part but…

For most SS amps, the power is voltage limited, so every time you double the ohms of the load, you halve the power output (give or take). So, assuming the 2x12 is a pair of 8 ohm speakers in series, rewiring them to a parallel 4 ohm load will get you 4 times the power out of your existing SS amps.

The BAM 200 is effectively a BAM 50 into 16 ohms, but s simple flip of the speaker wires could get it back to 200w and add 6db of headroom.

This has been another consideration, yes, two 8ohm speakers with a Mono/Stereo switch in back. If I wire it to 4ohms though I wouldn't be able to use the other amps I have with 8ohm minimums. Speaker swap or getting another cab has been on my mind too. I could just rewire it for whichever of my needs comes up, but that sounds like a mild PITA

 

[Richard_G]

Im still holding out on a fire sale ToneBlock 202.

Is it really that much better than similar products?

I almost bought a used one last fall, but ended up passing. Perhaps that was a mistake…

 

[Chocol8]

This has been another consideration, yes, two 8ohm speakers with a Mono/Stereo switch in back. If I wire it to 4ohms though I wouldn't be able to use the other amps I have with 8ohm minimums. Speaker swap or getting another cab has been on my mind too. I could just rewire it for whichever of my needs comes up, but that sounds like a mild PITA

You could just wire it with a series parallel switch.

 

[newholland]

Rash it up, I don't mind at all! I always try to look at things form all angles and others' perspectives are more than welcome. Devil's advocate takes and all.

Headroom and volume are the issue, at least with the BAM (plus gimpy low end). My cab is 16 ohms so most of that power is cut right in half and then some. The Yamaha gets there no problem, great clean transient response and plenty of volume, I just don't want to carry it around for my guitar rig. I have it in its own rack case as a part of my PA system, mixer in another case.

Then again, my band is only just breaking into the local scene playing these dingy punk shows (my apprehension to carry too much crap anyway) but I'd hope we get better gigs, write some songs that are a little less straightforward, and get to actually use some effects I like. So far the plan is to just rock the Katana until I figure it out.

The Boss Katana head is kicking some ass as a power amp, too. I have the dumb idea of finding an old beat up Kat and removing its power section to rehouse and use. I'm already into my third teardown/repair video

nah no rash intended- sounds like we're on the same team!

im wondering what the efficiency of those speaks is too- and wondering if thats another way to go. maybe stick with what you have and go with a speaker swap. itd sure cost less than a $600 amp- and maybe other benefits too. i used to rock an 18 watt amp, and itd hold its own with a jmp 50 watter when i went to an evm and a g12h30.

whats in the cab now, and sonically, how much are those speakers adding? anything upwards of 100db will make 100wpc LOUD.

 

[Chocol8]

You could just wire it with a series parallel switch.

Actually better thought. If is has a stereo switch and two inputs, a simple Y cable will let you run them in parallel at 4 ohms for use with SS amps and not require and changes to the cab or your other amps.

That is the cheapest and easiest way to gain a bunch headroom.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

a simple Y cable

Plugged into each (stereo) input and then into the amp?

Edit: anyone ever make one before? I found a spool of speaker wire

 

[hunter]

I'm ideally looking for something smaller than my Yamaha P3500s, and has enough power to drive a 16ohm 2x12 cab with an already-cased Axe FX. Something small and class D would fit in my backpack with the FC-6.

With the testing I've done earlier this week I don't think my BAM200 is going to cut it for punk shows with little to no PA support. I need more headroom.

If I‘d play punk shows, I‘d take the 500$ and get a used Marshall head or combo. Playing punk on an Axe FX feels wrong to me. Should be a cheap beaten up guitar too and loud as hell.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

Playing punk on an Axe FX feels wrong to me.

Yeah it has been a game of tail-chase as far as priorities go. I'll likely stick with the Katana for the punk gigs. We're not really a punk band per se, more Garage Rock/Post Punk with a little bit of Surf and Rockabilly but I like my noises and effects. Katana covers tones okay but the effects are lacking.

I may not use the AFX for this band at all, but if I feel like taking it somewhere I'd want a small amp to power it.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

nah no rash intended- sounds like we're on the same team!

im wondering what the efficiency of those speaks is too- and wondering if thats another way to go. maybe stick with what you have and go with a speaker swap. itd sure cost less than a $600 amp- and maybe other benefits too. i used to rock an 18 watt amp, and itd hold its own with a jmp 50 watter when i went to an evm and a g12h30.

whats in the cab now, and sonically, how much are those speakers adding? anything upwards of 100db will make 100wpc LOUD.

The cab has two 8ohm 25w Greenbacks in series but has a switch for stereo.

 

[newholland]

The cab has two 8ohm 25w Greenbacks in series but has a switch for stereo.

well.. greenies arent known for being either power resilient OR efficient- what about changing to something like a pair of g12h75s if you want to stick with celestions? or redbacks? i mean.. thats $350 worth of upgrade versus $700...

the other thing, though, is that greenies under a lotta power arent gonna help you with headroom.. theyre just gonna melt. sonically and otherwise!

 

[Chocol8]

Plugged into each (stereo) input and then into the amp?

Edit: anyone ever make one before? I found a spool of speaker wire

Yes. Connect the tips to each other and the rings to each other. With the cab set to stereo, you should have a 4 ohm load.