So... does 48v/PP melt the XLR outs of the Helix or not?

[SwirlyMaple]

The 1/4” outputs on Helix are not true balanced outputs (they don’t send a polarity-flipped duplicate signal), but they are “impedance balanced,” and using a TRS cable from them to a balanced input will still reduce noise via common mode rejection.

 

[BahamaDada]

Early hardware units (first couple years or so?) exhibited noise when 48v was applied to Helix's XLR outputs, but that was mitigated a long time ago. AFAIK, no units were actually damaged from phantom power.

Thanks for giving insight, @Digital Igloo

How can you see if the device is one of the early ones? Serial number? Bought mine early '20.

 

[Digital Igloo]

Thanks for giving insight, @Digital Igloo

How can you see if the device is one of the early ones? Serial number? Bought mine early '20.

If you bought it new in 2020, you should be fine. If you apply 48v to the XLR outs, you'll immediately hear if it's one of the older ones.

 

[BahamaDada]

See this is why I love forums and no social media can imitate this: a well worded question (Pat on my own back, sorry), knowledged people chiming in and in the end you most likely get an answer and/or at least a solution. Thx a lot guys.

 

[DieSchmalle]

Early hardware units (first couple years or so?) exhibited noise when 48v was applied to Helix's XLR outputs, but that was mitigated a long time ago. AFAIK, no units were actually damaged from phantom power.

Can you then suggest to remove the "IMPORTANT! Never connect the Helix device’s XLR outputs to a device whose XLR inputs have 48V phantom power enabled!" warning from the manual?

 

[DieSchmalle]

See this is why I love forums and no social media can imitate this: a well worded question (Pat on my own back, sorry), knowledged people chiming in and in the end you most likely get an answer and/or at least a solution. Thx a lot guys.

"A prudent question is one half of wisdom.” - Francis Bacon

 

[pipelineaudio]

Is there a 1/4” on the helix? XLR to 1/4” cable. AFAIK phantom power will not send to 1/4”. Maybe I’m wrong but this may be a solution.

I had asked about this, as I use my 1/4" as my normal personal monitor send, but even that has a chance of phantom, and when I asked they made it seem like there was still a possibility of actual damage.

 

[pipelineaudio]

It clearly states not to use an XLR plug input for anything other than a microphone, and the rest of the sentence would confirm that only the XLR is carrying the 48v. What I would do, which I think Bruce was getting at, is run an XLR to TRS type cable from the helix to 2i2 (disengage instrument button on 2i2). Still keeps everything balanced and bypasses the 48v. Apparently the 1/4" outs of the helix are not balanced so TRS to TRS cable wouldn't do any good.
Send a message to Focusrite if you're still hesitant. They can confirm and/or give some helpful info.

Global Settings/XLR Outputs allows you to set to mic level, which Focusrite Octopre MKII, MKII Dynamic, Solo Gen 3, 212 Gen 3, and 4i4 Gen 3 are certainly perfectly happy with

 

[pipelineaudio]

No, but most modern mixers either have selectable line/mic input for XLR or TRS/XLR combo style jacks.
Not to mention 48v selectable per channel in most cases.

thats WAY too much faith in both skill and no accidents when you have so much else to worry about

 

[pipelineaudio]

Can you then suggest to remove the "IMPORTANT! Never connect the Helix device’s XLR outputs to a device whose XLR inputs have 48V phantom power enabled!" warning from the manual?

Yeah, this wording looks terrifying

 

[Foxmeister]

Can you then suggest to remove the "IMPORTANT! Never connect the Helix device’s XLR outputs to a device whose XLR inputs have 48V phantom power enabled!" warning from the manual?

I'd imagine it is easier to leave it in, given it still applies to pre 2020 units!

 

[DieSchmalle]

Sorry, I slept a lot during physics class... So "frying" should not be any urgent problem with Helix and PP?

That's unfortunate. And yes.

 

[DieSchmalle]

I'd imagine it is easier to leave it in, given it still applies to pre 2020 units!

That's unfortunate. And yes.

 

[FuzzyAce]

thats WAY too much faith in both skill and no accidents when you have so much else to worry about

I don't know of any mixers or interfaces that put 48v on a 1/4 TRS input? Not saying there isn't specialized/custom equipment that may be, but it would be unusual for consumer stuff.

 

[FuzzyAce]

Global Settings/XLR Outputs allows you to set to mic level, which Focusrite Octopre MKII, MKII Dynamic, Solo Gen 3, 212 Gen 3, and 4i4 Gen 3 are certainly perfectly happy with

I was speaking more on the issue of running it into a phantom powered connection. No need to (even though damage is unlikely. still a good practice not to). Of course running into a mic input will work if you adjust gain levels appropriately.

 

[pipelineaudio]

I don't know of any mixers or interfaces that put 48v on a 1/4 TRS input? Not saying there isn't specialized/custom equipment that may be, but it would be unusual for consumer stuff.

You have faith they will certainly use the 1/4"...In so many cases its going to a stage snake with only xlr inputs. Its your gamble, roll the dice how you'd like, but I'd advise against faith based systems

 

[pipelineaudio]

I was speaking more on the issue of running it into a phantom powered connection. No need to (even though damage is unlikely. still a good practice not to). Of course running into a mic input will work if you adjust gain levels appropriately.

I was responding to Focusrite's advise of ONLY plugging mics into the mic input because of level and other concerns as per their manual. Helix at mic level IS a microphone for all intents and purposes and this is how we tend to use these sorts of things every day.


Regarding the phantom power aspect of it: Phantom power can just as much damage microphones that are not ready for it. With plenty of famously expensive and disastrous results that you'll usually read in the "Today I f'd up" sections of recording forums

 

[FuzzyAce]

Regarding the phantom power aspect of it: Phantom power can just as much damage microphones that are not ready for it. With plenty of famously expensive and disastrous results that you'll usually read in the "Today I f'd up" sections of recording forums

Of course. This is why I err on the side of avoiding it altogether per the OP's concerns. A simple female XLR to TRS cable fixes this based on his needs.
Taking things to the stage is a different game and communication is key with the sound person. Know your sh!t and having extra utility gear on hand helps.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Are the Scarlett series actually wired TRS on the combo jacks though? Or just TS?

 

[FuzzyAce]

Are the Scarlett series actually wired TRS on the combo jacks though? Or just TS?

TS or TRS. Here's a portion from the 18i8 manual, but same for 2i2.

1. Inputs 1 and 2 – “Combo” input sockets - connect microphones, instruments (e.g., guitar), or
line level signals here. Combo sockets accept both XLR and ¼” (6.35 mm) jacks. Microphones
connect using XLR plugs: instruments and line level signals connect via ¼” (6.35 mm) jack
plugs of either TS or TRS type. The preamp gain is appropriate for microphones when an XLR
plug is inserted, and for higher level signals when a jack plug is inserted. Do not connect
anything other than a microphone - e.g., the output of a sound module or FX unit - via an XLR
plug, as the signal level will overload the preamp, resulting in distortion; , if phantom power
is enabled, you may damage your equipment.
2. Inputs 3 & 4 – XLR Combo type input sockets – as [1], but accept mic or line level signals only.
Direct connection of instruments should be via Inputs 1 and/or 2.
3. 48V – two switches enabling 48 V phantom power at the XLR contacts (mic inputs) of the
Combo connectors, in pairs (1 & 2; 3 & 4). The 48V indicators illuminate red when phantom
power is selected.