Shaping Your Tone: Can We Discuss EQ And The Various Ways You Use It?

[LeftyLoungeLizard]

Your tones of cover songs seem to match really really well. How much of a role does EQ use play?

There's always some EQ going on. In some cases, a lot. Generally, depends on the gear I'm using; if I don't have the exact gear or limited info on gear used (for cover songs tone), then I'll find myself having to use my ear to EQ things close. In extreme cases (Ronni LeTekro TNT for example), I just say fuck it and cheat by analyzing the real tone with say Pro-Q3 and applying that EQ (but you must be in the ballpark for this to work), because the info is extremely limited.

There's nothing in any of my mixes (cover or original) that doesn't get touched by EQ.

 

[Orvillain]

If the EQ doesn't come from the amp you're using, the amp is a waste of your time.

You shouldn't need to add EQ from pedals for a good guitar sound.

Just my 2 cents.

There's so much filtering and shaping of frequencies going on inside an amp anyway, that to take EQ off the table seems a bit bizarre to me tbh. You're not doing anything with EQ that you aren't already doing in the circuitry of the amp, philosophically speaking.

Signal In -----> Fuckery Happens -----> Signal Out

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

If the EQ doesn't come from the amp you're using, the amp is a waste of your time.

You shouldn't need to add EQ from pedals for a good guitar sound.

Just my 2 cents.

Yet my fave circuits have the ability to bypass the tone stack.

Let’s be real for a sec… you push or cut something in front of gain is very different from after gain.
And since we are talking boost that’s not what an amp’s tone stack does.

The amps actual sound is what happens with the tone stack bypassed, everything that happens with the eq is just tossing away frequency information.

 

[LeftyLoungeLizard]

Have to add along these lines, I think it's important (for those who aren't aware) to know that there's usually a huge difference between:

a.) amp in the room tone

and

b.) amp on the album tone

So, if you're shooting for a decent facsimile of the album tone while playing live, you're going to have to add all/most of that "studio magic" (EQing, compression, reverb, panning, lo pass, etc what have you) to your amp's tone to achieve this. You're going to have to have some sort of "studio" in physical form that you can drag with you to the gig, or in your home studio, etc...

Using a unit like the Fractal AxeFX, Quad Cortex etc makes things much easier for obvious reasons, because it's all self-contained (amp+speaker+"studio").

That being said, you can still add stuff using a real tube or SS amp by tapping a line out of your amp, running it through some processing (say, Two Notes CAB M with speaker iRs, or similar), EQ, delay, reverb, etc... then feed that into a power amp and speakers ("FRFR").

 

[V|J]

While I would generally agree with that up to a certain point, I primarily use headphones, and have tinnitus, so I try to keep volume low.

Sorry to hear that.
I’m quite afraid of playing through headphones myself.

I play unplugged 99% of the time but that doesn’t work out if you’re into rock/metal.

Another thing I learnt, sometimes using a pedal to push the same frequencies works better than an EQ.

I was pushing 1-1.3 kHz but am using a Klon instead.. not boosting, just EQ filtering.
Same with a Timmy, not much gain or volume boost.

Obviously, any pedal circuit does a bit more than a simple EQ and it can lead to happy surprises.

Still, I use a pre and post EQ all the time. Nothing stronger and faster than those.
But it’s easy to get pedantic with these.

 

[TSJMajesty]

Have to add along these lines, I think it's important (for those who aren't aware) to know that there's usually a huge difference between:

a.) amp in the room tone

and

b.) amp on the album tone

So, if you're shooting for a decent facsimile of the album tone while playing live, you're going to have to add all/most of that "studio magic" (EQing, compression, reverb, panning, lo pass, etc what have you) to your amp's tone to achieve this. You're going to have to have some sort of "studio" in physical form that you can drag with you to the gig, or in your home studio, etc...

Using a unit like the Fractal AxeFX, Quad Cortex etc makes things much easier for obvious reasons, because it's all self-contained (amp+speaker+"studio").

That being said, you can still add stuff using a real tube or SS amp by tapping a line out of your amp, running it through some processing (say, Two Notes CAB M with speaker iRs, or similar), EQ, delay, reverb, etc... then feed that into a power amp and speakers (""FRFR"").

Great point!

But I think most people are trying to go the other way!

 

[TSJMajesty]

Sorry to hear that.
I’m quite afraid of playing through headphones myself.

I play unplugged 99% of the time

Sorry to hear thatI!

Yeah it's a thing. Sometimes I will turn it up loud, because it sounds SO GOOD! And I know that, in short bursts, it's not going to hurt my ears. I just won't do it for very long.

I'd like to keep what hearing I have.

Man, the things I wish I could have a do-over on. (Wearing earplugs at concerts being one of them. My ears rang for days on more than a few occasions! )

 

[LeftyLoungeLizard]

Great point!

But I think most people are trying to go the other way

 

[laxu]

The amps actual sound is what happens with the tone stack bypassed, everything that happens with the eq is just tossing away frequency information.

I disagree. The tone stack is just as much part of how that particular amp sounds. Bypassing it is just a different sound.

I don't like the notion that e.g the simplest circuit gives you a more "pure" or "real" tone, when any amp is a huge sound shaping thing in the first place. None of us love a "pure" tone - basically a DI signal amplified. We want that shaped by gain stages, tone stacks, poweramp behavior and finally guitar speakers.

 

[Piing]

Cliff's recipe for Pre-EQ. It is great with some amps. It also makes the change from bridge to neck pickup smoother, as it reduces the extreme hi and lo frequencies, emphasizing the juice pushing the amp.

Put a Filter block before the amp block set as follows:
Type: Peaking
Freq: 2000 Hz
Q: 0.5
Gain: 8 dB (adjust to taste)
Lowcut: 60 Hz
Hicut: 3500 Hz
Level: Adjust to taste

The Power of Pre-EQ

You can't be afraid of anything with the Axe FX.

forum.fractalaudio.com

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

I disagree. The tone stack is just as much part of how that particular amp sounds. Bypassing it is just a different sound.

I don't like the notion that e.g the simplest circuit gives you a more "pure" or "real" tone, when any amp is a huge sound shaping thing in the first place. None of us love a "pure" tone - basically a DI signal amplified. We want that shaped by gain stages, tone stacks, poweramp behavior and finally guitar speakers.

Well, the I view things that gain/distortion, is an effect as are filters that attenuate overtones.

You don’t have to agree with me, but I don’t foresee my mind being changed.

The idea of a DI signal being the purest makes no sense cause the guitar is only half of the instrument.
I reckon we can view a DI into a mic pre into power amp into monitors as an amp.

And the same applies