Quick shootout of different modelers in a mix!

[Piing]

I think 3 had the most lush tones, with a sweet aftertaste and a hint of rosemary.

It is a pity that I missed that nuance, because I farted while #3 was playing

 

[Mongillo19]

Which one confirms my bias?

I think I liked 4 the most

 

[paisleywookiee]

Which one confirms my bias?

I think I liked 4 the most

None of them are Bias.

 

[BenIfin]

Obviously no idea which is what ...... but ..... I preferred 1 and 4 ..... 2 and 3 a bit less.

The differences are very far from show-stoppers as I playback-clicked from each to each as they were playing - did notice some variations with the differing perceived levels of the solo-melody-guitar from track-to-track.

However - I then played each one fully through in order from 1 to 4 - and let my ears rest and refresh for 15 seconds or so in-between - doing it that way I was unable to "remember-hear" any differences and they all sounded equally fine.

B.T.W ... I really liked the music and melody ! :) So refreshing to hear a modeler comparison that isn't playing double-tracked-super-saturated-gained-up-guitars with Drums and Bass that are all ultra-maximized to the sh%thouse !!!!!

Thanks and all the best,
Ben

 

[Jarick]

Alright, here's the big reveal:

Mixes 1 & 3 were the Fractal Axe FX 3
Mixes 2 & 4 were the Kemper Profiler

Mixes 1 & 2 were the Dimarzio Area noiseless pickups in my Ibanez AZ
Mixes 3 & 4 were the Suhr V60LP single coils in my Strat

All four mixes used just the amp/cab of the Axe FX or the profile of the Kemper, into the exact same reverb/delay in Helix Native.

Looking at the results of the poll and responses, there was definitely a preference for the Kemper over the Fractal. This is interesting because to me the Fractal sounded more open and clear, but in the mix the Kemper had a push in the midrange that seemed to help it cut, especially the lead.

I think the bright high end of the Fractal was one reason some didn't like it. I actually had to cut the highs at 5k in this mix to get closer to the Kemper, which had no cuts. That's something I've noticed a lot lately when comparing them.

The other kicker is, I left the compressor block on in the Kemper (MBritt profiles), which probably helped boost the volume and made them sound a little more appealing than the Fractal.

Last thing, I personally think the true single coils sound better than the noiseless pickups, but the Areas seem to be hotter and push the mids/lows a bit more, which I think was more appealing for some.

Bonus mixes:

1 was the Kemper Profiler with its own effects and compressor block turned off
2 was the Fractal Axe FX 3 with its own effects and gain tweaked
3 was Helix Native with its own effects

I was going to go further here, but I decided to do something else to get some more variety. I dusted off the DI tracks from the modeler shootout I did in 2020 and am redoing those with all the gear I have now (and hopefully better ears/more experience). That's sounding really good. I also started writing a new full track that will have all kinds of different tones.

Right now I'm thinking I'll just drop the modeler comparison this week with all the modeler names revealed, and then I'll do another blind shootout of the final mixes of the song when I'm done with that.

Thanks everyone for the feedback!

 

[Jarick]

Responding to the comments:

Oh man. These are dangerous to reply to. Not sure I trust myself.


2 closely followed by 4. 2 just sounded the most present and open.

3 was kind of darker and more compressed sounding to me.

Listened again. Yup... 2.... then 4, 1, and 3.

That said, some instances I might want a softer feel and more subdued presence.

Right out of the gate, you picked up on the Kemper vs Fractal. Nice job! It's interesting you picked 2 over 4 for more highs as the single coils sound more open, but in a mix that high end gets lost and the upper mids cut through more. 3 was probably the most open in the high end but that again got buried with drums.

Rhythm guitar, I have a clear preference for 1 and 3. The tone seems to be cleaner, 2 and 4 have a tad more crunch and are less open sounding to my ear.

Lead guitar, 2 has the best articulation and openness, followed by 4, and I like 1 less than the others.

Agreed, after listening back many times I prefer the rhythm sound of the Fractal (more scooped) and the punchy lead of the Kemper.

#2 and #1 feel more dynamic and open on the highs, but that is something that maybe could have also been achieved on #3 and #4 with some tweaking.

Of course, that can also be the acoustics of my loo

Again interesting because I hear the opposite solo, but I think those Dimarzio pickups have a little more output and compression which may help them cut through more!

This is really a "which two did you listen back to back" where it's hard to pick a winner.

For me mixdown 4 is the winner because I felt it had the best mix of "clarity and sweetness" for my tastes.

#2 is probably the most different from the rest. Seems a bit more "focused" or "narrow" and a bit more harsh.

Although I liked 3 the best at first, 4 did seem like it sat the best all around. I tried to match levels both on the meter and by ear but it was tricky.

I ruled out 1 and 3 immediately. I would not want to play a rig that sounds like either of those.

It took a little more effort to decide between 2 and 4. In the end, I noted that 2 has a little bit of the hard/harsh sound that 1 and 3 both have, and 4 has little or none of it. So 4 is my choice.

Really interesting, you did not like the Fractal at all! You also seemed to pick up on the bit of compression and hardness of the Dimarzio pickups too. Not surprising as you have excellent ears!

From a quick listen. I liked:
Rhythm of version 1
Lead of version 2

Agreed!

4 3 1 2

Also interesting, you seemed to really prefer the single coils over noiseless, and that jumped out to you more than the difference in modeler!

 

[Piing]

That is unfair. You said we were comparing different modelers, so we assume the same reamped track through four different modelers, but you introduced another variable that is different pickups and different guitars. That distorts and invalidates the test

 

[Jarick]

That is unfair. You said we were comparing different modelers, so we assume the same reamped track though four different modelers, but you introduced another variable that is different pickups and different guitars. That distorts and invalidates the test

I very consciously worded that first post lol

That's where it started though, I was curious how different noiseless vs single coils sat in a mix.

 

[FuzzyAce]

I have to agree with @Piing about the pickup variable. But each unit could be eq'd differently too, so still a lot of other variables at play.
With that said I like lead tone on 1. Has a nice creamy finish to the notes, and not too bright.
Rhythm I'm leaning towards 3.

 

[Jarick]

I have to agree with @Piing about the pickup variable. But each unit could be eq'd differently too, so still a lot of other variables at play.
With that said I like lead tone on 1. Has a nice creamy finish to the notes, and not too bright.
Rhythm I'm leaning towards 3.

It's not really another variable, it's the same sound clips running through two different modelers, one for each guitar/pickup.

1 = DI clip 1 > Fractal
2 = DI clip 1 > Kemper
3 = DI clip 2 > Fractal
4 = DI clip 2 > Kemper

 

[mavrick102000]

1 & 3 were my favorites.

2 & 4, I didn't care as much for the rhythm tone - more pronounced grit.

 

[Riffraff]

I like #2 the most followed by #4.

 

[Whizzinby]

I liked three because it was the cleanest, it had less grit muddying it up, but I think that’s more of my preference for that riff in that mix than the differences in the modelers themselves.

 

[Bob Zaod]

I think 3 had the most lush tones, with a sweet aftertaste and a hint of rosemary.

Thats the one I picked.

 

[Mooselake]

seems I preferred the kemper. I agree on the different guitar/pickup thing. Was it the kemper I liked, the pickups, that particular collection of performances--hard to say. Despite how carefully you worded the first post, the subject line of the thread sets expectations.

 

[TSJMajesty]

How one dials in tones on these units can also affect the results. Personal preferences in how a tone sounds, using a certain parameter, when a different one would yield better results, etc... I don't really see the point to these kinds of comparisons.

I do however respect opinions from people who have extensively used 2 or more units, knows how to get the most out of them, and will make it clear the types of things about each one that actually matter to them.

 

[FuzzyAce]

It's not really another variable, it's the same sound clips running through two different modelers, one for each guitar/pickup.

1 = DI clip 1 > Fractal
2 = DI clip 1 > Kemper
3 = DI clip 2 > Fractal
4 = DI clip 2 > Kemper

what I was getting at is they all work, and you can fine tune each one with some gain and eq. The cool thing is I wouldn't have even thought of modeling if you hadn't mentioned it.

 

[Jarick]

Question for the group, if I were to shootout the different modelers, would you prefer I use the same IR for everything, or use the native cabs to each?

Primary reason is the Kemper sticks out like a sore thumb if I'm using the same IR's for the rest of them, but then you're just mostly hearing the differences in IR's.

 

[Whizzinby]

Same guitar, same cab/IR?

 

[Jarick]

Same guitar, same cab/IR?

Same DI clip for everything, but do I swap the Kemper profile for an IR or keep stock?