Power amp for modelers. Alternatives. Class D vs Class AB?

[JiveTurkey]

The BluGuitar Amp 1 Mercury Edition is my choice for this. You get a full blown, great sounding 4 channel amp covering a lot of classic Marshall tones really well and a very nice Fender clean. It works great as a poweramp for your modeler or preamp pedal.

I've measured the Amp 1 ME through a 1x12 Eminence Maverick with a 100 dB sensitivity rating. I got 120 dB @ 1m @ 8 ohms out of it on the Vintage channel cranked all the way. A 45W Bogner Goldfinger all tube amp was not as loud through the same cab. To put that into an in-the-room experience, everything in the room was shaking at that point and I would not dare to be in front of the speaker. But it was pretty glorious.

Now granted, this was with the Amp 1 basically going into poweramp distortion because it is after all, a guitar amp. I haven't measured how loud it goes pristine clean. But fairly loud for sure.

Forgot Blug. I trust the sauce it would put on the plate. I think that is a HUGE missed opportunity over the Gone With The Wind 12 year saga of the BlugX

I've tried tube amps, Katana's, big Carvin, QSC and Yamaha PA power amps, power amps built into mixers, TC Electronic BAM200. The only tiny pedal amp I've tried is the speaker out on my Rocktron Banshee


I really have no qualms over using a Class D amp over a tube amp as long as it has enough headroom and the modeling is good. I just built a 700w stereo Class-D amp for less than the cost of that Victory amp or the Powerstage 700 and I could bridge the two channels for 1400w when it's time to execute my plan for world domination

I'd like to find a beat up Katana head and pull just the power section out of it because the one I have is a beast.

Get a BAM200 if your speakers have a load of 8ohms or lower. You can set the preamp pretty flat. Scour the used market for rack mount power amps.

What speakers do you have?

The Kat power amp would be AWESOME if they would just NOT Boss it up llike they always do! Remove the sauce; keep the punch! I would definitely grab one.

 

[paisleywookiee]

All the options have something you can use to say "Nah" with

1. SD is super picky about the input level. 110%. I didn't like them.
2. Orange has too much Orange sauce on top. Totally agree, even though I generally like Orange.
3. Quilter has the weird EQ section. Yes, except it seemed better if you ran into the loop return. I didn't like it at all in front.
4. 200lb 3u PA power amp looks great on the wattage side but if you're carrying that much around; just bring an amp you love and use it. Yup. Just buy a Badlander/Mark/5150
5. These newer options are a bit concerning once you realize you are probably not going to be running them with a 4ohm cab. And I don't want any additional AD/DA brought on by extra features the manufacturer drummed up. That's why the Wampler is the most interesting one, for sure.

Fairly portable but loud, dumb box with presence, resonance and level controls for me is ideal.

 

[JiveTurkey]

@paisleywookiee someday I'm going to find that 202 on firesale!

 

[paisleywookiee]

@paisleywookiee someday I'm going to find that 202 on firesale!

Yeah the 202 is the one to get.

 

[Henry]

Is there an Archangel power amp in the works? I didn't fully understand his post on the Fractal forum.

 

[Shask]

Wow. I had a quilter and an ART SLA_2 and didnt like either of them. I like the the SDPS170 better than both. Never tried the orange.

I'm patiently waiting for the Wampler.

I had been using my Matrix GT1000fx for a long time and recently pulled out my old SLA-2 out of the closet after not using it for years. I really like the way it punches on the low end after hearing the lower mid smoothness and compression of the Matrix. The SLA is pretty flat and punchy due to being Class AB and having a big ass transformer power supply instead of a switching supply like the Matrix and many of the small Class D units.

 

[Eagle]

I had been using my Matrix GT1000fx for a long time and recently pulled out my old SLA-2 out of the closet after not using it for years. I really like the way it punches on the low end after hearing the lower mid smoothness and compression of the Matrix. The SLA is pretty flat and punchy due to being Class AB and having a big ass transformer power supply instead of a switching supply like the Matrix and many of the small Class D units.

The Matrix is AB as well.

 

[EOengineer]

Forgot Blug. I trust the sauce it would put on the plate. I think that is a HUGE missed opportunity over the Gone With The Wind 12 year saga of the BlugX

The Kat power amp would be AWESOME if they would just NOT Boss it up llike they always do! Remove the sauce; keep the punch! I would definitely grab one.

Blug is going to kill the company with Amp-X and then revive it with PowerAmp-X where the thing can mimic a bunch of tube and solid state power amps.

 

[Shask]

The Matrix is AB as well.

Yeah, it is Class AB Mosfet, but it has a lightweight switching power supply which is not as strong as a traditional heavy power supply, so the bass doesn't punch as tight and hard. This was very noticeable to me when I recently pulled out the old ART.

 

[laxu]

Ok, time for some measurements for y'all!

You can see in the picture the rough size difference between the PS-100 and Amp 1. The Amp 1 is 1.2 kg, PS-100 is 7.3 kg.

Guitar:​

Carvin C66 superstrat​

• Alder body, maple neck, Floyd Rose bridge.
• Suht Doug Aldrich pickups.

Used the bridge pickup with guitar volume/tone on 10.

Modeler:​

Fractal AM4​

• Firmware: 2.00 beta 1
• Output: Out R in split mode. Right has no cab sim.
• Output level knob: Max
• Amp model: Brit 800 2203 High
  • Gain: 7.10
  • Master volume: 3.53
  • Amp level: -7 dB
• Main levels: Peak +1 dB

Poweramps:​

BluGuitar Amp 1 Mercury Edition​

• Modeler connected to fx loop return.
• Fx loop level: +4 dB
• Channel: Classic
  • Modern channel sounds/feels most like Fryette PS-100 the way I like to set it up.
  • Classic is a bit brighter/tighter. I chose it only because I've got the Amp 1 dialed for a JCM800-ish sound on that channel.
  • Vintage and Clean sound closer to Modern.
• 3-band EQ is NOT working when plugging a modeler into the fx loop. So those settings don't matter.
• No difference in volume between channels when Amp1 is used as a poweramp.

Fryette Power Station PS-100​

• Modeler connected to PS-100 line-in.
• Presence: 9 o'clock
• Depth: 9 o'clock

Measurement:​

I played some riffs and power chords and monitored the level with a fairly cheap decibel meter. So accuracy is not guaranteed.
The decibel meter is supposed to be able to handle up to 130 dB measurements.

The meter was set on top of a guitar stand at 1m distance from each cab.

Poweramp	Volume settings	Bluetone 2x12 diagonal Vintage 30, volume dBA @ 1m	Bluetone 4x10 10" Greenback, volume dBA @ 1m
BluGuitar Amp 1 Mercury Edition	5/10	108-109	108-109
	10/10	120-123	120 dBA
Fryette Power Station PS-100	5/10, Presence/Depth 9 o'clock	106-108
	10/10, Presence/Depth 9 o'clock	119-120
	5/10, Presence/Depth max	109-110
	10/10, Presence/Depth max	120

Didn't bother plugging the PS-100 into the 4x10 cab. Would probably put out similar volumes.

I was surprised the Amp 1 ME actually got slightly louder at max volume! Not that you'd really notice because I did not dare to do much playing because it was painfully loud. So max volumes are very quick tests, and 5/10 volumes I played more and checked the volumes more carefully.

 

[contrario]

Was there a tonal difference between Blu and Fryette when using as a poweramp?

 

[laxu]

Was there a tonal difference between Blu and Fryette when using as a poweramp?

Yes, depending on the BluGuitar channel, and obviously Presence/Depth settings on the Fryette. Those changes were described in my post, the Modern channel was closest in sound and feel to how I prefer to setup to the Fryette when it's connected to my 2x12 V30 cab.

I think the BluGuitar did a great job and I was happy with the tones I was getting. Even maxed out it didn't seem to buckle - it just was painfully loud, but not bad sounding.

I've been running the Fractal AM4 -> Amp 1 ME -> BluGuitar 1x12 cabs at home as a low volume rig and find it preferable to using my Genelec studio monitors for that - mostly because of the real guitar cabs of course.

 

[MachineAgainstTheRage]

Ok, time for some measurements for y'all!

You can see in the picture the rough size difference between the PS-100 and Amp 1. The Amp 1 is 1.2 kg, PS-100 is 7.3 kg.

Guitar:​

Carvin C66 superstrat​

• Alder body, maple neck, Floyd Rose bridge.
• Suht Doug Aldrich pickups.

Used the bridge pickup with guitar volume/tone on 10.

Modeler:​

Fractal AM4​

• Firmware: 2.00 beta 1
• Output: Out R in split mode. Right has no cab sim.
• Output level knob: Max
• Amp model: Brit 800 2203 High
  • Gain: 7.10
  • Master volume: 3.53
  • Amp level: -7 dB
• Main levels: Peak +1 dB

Poweramps:​

BluGuitar Amp 1 Mercury Edition​

• Modeler connected to fx loop return.
• Fx loop level: +4 dB
• Channel: Classic
  • Modern channel sounds/feels most like Fryette PS-100 the way I like to set it up.
  • Classic is a bit brighter/tighter. I chose it only because I've got the Amp 1 dialed for a JCM800-ish sound on that channel.
  • Vintage and Clean sound closer to Modern.
• 3-band EQ is NOT working when plugging a modeler into the fx loop. So those settings don't matter.
• No difference in volume between channels when Amp1 is used as a poweramp.

Fryette Power Station PS-100​

• Modeler connected to PS-100 line-in.
• Presence: 9 o'clock
• Depth: 9 o'clock

Measurement:​

I played some riffs and power chords and monitored the level with a fairly cheap decibel meter. So accuracy is not guaranteed.
The decibel meter is supposed to be able to handle up to 130 dB measurements.

The meter was set on top of a guitar stand at 1m distance from each cab.

Poweramp	Volume settings	Bluetone 2x12 diagonal Vintage 30, volume dBA @ 1m	Bluetone 4x10 10" Greenback, volume dBA @ 1m
BluGuitar Amp 1 Mercury Edition	5/10	108-109	108-109
	10/10	120-123	120 dBA
Fryette Power Station PS-100	5/10, Presence/Depth 9 o'clock	106-108
	10/10, Presence/Depth 9 o'clock	119-120
	5/10, Presence/Depth max	109-110
	10/10, Presence/Depth max	120

Didn't bother plugging the PS-100 into the 4x10 cab. Would probably put out similar volumes.

I was surprised the Amp 1 ME actually got slightly louder at max volume! Not that you'd really notice because I did not dare to do much playing because it was painfully loud. So max volumes are very quick tests, and 5/10 volumes I played more and checked the volumes more carefully.

That might tell us more about the input sensitivity of those two devices rather than their output power... the correct way to find the latter is to measure at what output power or voltage it reaches 0.1% or 1% THD and check if it doesn't go into thermal shut-down at that level.

 

[laxu]

That might tell us more about the input sensitivity of those two devices rather than their output power... the correct way to find the latter is to measure at what output power or voltage it reaches 0.1% or 1% THD and check if it doesn't go into thermal shut-down at that level.

That's fair, but I don't have the tools to do that so this is a layman's test. You could also pump the output level of the Fractal more, and the fx loop return of the Fryette might accept a different input level.

The point is that with straightforward settings and connections both get very loud and sound good.

 

[Foxmeister]

The Victory sounds solid in the few controlled environment videos that have been released so far. No idea if it's actually enough volume to keep up with a live band.

I was quite keen on the idea of the Victory until i realised it was essentially "just" another class D amp.

I do wonder how it would compare to something like the Blackstar Amped 1.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I was quite keen on the idea of the Victory until i realised it was essentially "just" another class D amp.

I do wonder how it would compare to something like the Blackstar Amped 1.

Yeah and at that point; my FR12 is fine as far as using some Class D whatever. Mostly because of the Archangel preamp.

 

[ragingplatypi]

Blug is going to kill the company with Amp-X and then revive it with PowerAmp-X where the thing can mimic a bunch of tube and solid state power amps.

The next Christopher Guest movie should be “Waiting for Blug” - a mashup of Spinal Tap and Waiting for Guffman.

 

[noizmsm]

That is the ideal. I would like to compare to the Wampler AI power amp technology. Both, this Victory PowerValve 200 and the Wampler Pedalhead are going to replace Seymour Duncan if they can distribute worldwide and make stores have enough stock.

 

[noizmsm]

The BluGuitar Amp 1 Mercury Edition is my choice for this. You get a full blown, great sounding 4 channel amp covering a lot of classic Marshall tones really well and a very nice Fender clean. It works great as a poweramp for your modeler or preamp pedal.

I've measured the Amp 1 ME through a 1x12 Eminence Maverick with a 100 dB sensitivity rating. I got 120 dB @ 1m @ 8 ohms out of it on the Vintage channel cranked all the way. A 45W Bogner Goldfinger all tube amp was not as loud through the same cab. To put that into an in-the-room experience, everything in the room was shaking at that point and I would not dare to be in front of the speaker. But it was pretty glorious.

Now granted, this was with the Amp 1 basically going into poweramp distortion because it is after all, a guitar amp. I haven't measured how loud it goes pristine clean. But fairly loud for sure.

I never found: what if the microtube in the Bluguitar fails? It's not easy to swap it, and they don't sell it as far as I know. But for like 2 or 3 years I thought about the cons and pros of Blueamp vs Fractal AM3. Same price where I live basically, but I decided to go another route, having a cheaper multi effect and investing later on speakers (studio monitors and guitar speaker or a guitar FRFR cab).

 

[bucephalus]

I never found: what if the microtube in the Bluguitar fails? It's not easy to swap it, and they don't sell it as far as I know. But for like 2 or 3 years I thought about the cons and pros of Blueamp vs Fractal AM3. Same price where I live basically, but I decided to go another route, having a cheaper multi effect and investing later on speakers (studio monitors and guitar speaker or a guitar FRFR cab).

Must admit I have wondered about this also. They're quite spendy even second hand so would be interested to know.