Potential crazy - stomp XL vs FC6 vs HX one

[dk_ace]

Yeah I know it doesn’t make any sense but here me out….

I’d like more footswitches for my FM9. I can operate with the 9, but more is better. FC6 plus an expression pedal goes in the accessory pocket of the backpack, one cable and no power to connect it… easy.

But I can’t let things just be easy…

I also miss some things from Helix land. Ok I don’t really need them this is mainly FOMO, but it is what it is. HX one was going to be my possible solution to that but it’s limited to one block and there are quite a few reports of it being noisy. But I started thinking that maybe the Stomp xl gets me both what the HX one and FC6 bring? It’s a midi controller for fm9 when I want it to be, and/or it’s HX sounds in a loop when I want it to be. Conveniently it’s also a built in backup rig. Biggest difference being that I need a power solution for the stomp.

I like the helix floor command center stuff for midi. I found it easy to program and that it works well. I’m assuming It works the same on a stomp?

So what are the TGF thoughts on what I’m considering here? On a scale of slightly deranged to commit this fool, where am I sitting?

D

 

[laxu]

I say deranged.

I think you need to describe what are the things you are missing from the Helix, and maybe we can recommend how to do those things in Fractal-land.

As for more footswitches, remember that Fractal is a bit shit about MIDI support for all its features (e.g song list features are still not MIDI controllable), so consider any MIDI controller to be a bit of a 2nd tier citizen compared to the FC6/12. But the FC controllers are bulky as hell so I honestly would not want to carry both a FC6 and a FM9.

So MIDI is back on the menu, and then it's a question of what you want to do with it. What would additional footswitches solve for you?

 

[Desertdweller]

Yeah I know it doesn’t make any sense but here me out….

I’d like more footswitches for my FM9. I can operate with the 9, but more is better. FC6 plus an expression pedal goes in the accessory pocket of the backpack, one cable and no power to connect it… easy.

But I can’t let things just be easy…

I also miss some things from Helix land. Ok I don’t really need them this is mainly FOMO, but it is what it is. HX one was going to be my possible solution to that but it’s limited to one block and there are quite a few reports of it being noisy. But I started thinking that maybe the Stomp xl gets me both what the HX one and FC6 bring? It’s a midi controller for fm9 when I want it to be, and/or it’s HX sounds in a loop when I want it to be. Conveniently it’s also a built in backup rig. Biggest difference being that I need a power solution for the stomp.

I like the helix floor command center stuff for midi. I found it easy to program and that it works well. I’m assuming It works the same on a stomp?

So what are the TGF thoughts on what I’m considering here? On a scale of slightly deranged to commit this fool, where am I sitting?

D

Why not snag a Morningstar MC8? It has 2 pages of 8 buttons per preset and you can set long and short hold times. So that’s 32 changes you can make per preset with only 8 switches. You can program it to do anything.

 

[dk_ace]

I say deranged.

I think you need to describe what are the things you are missing from the Helix, and maybe we can recommend how to do those things in Fractal-land.

As for more footswitches, remember that Fractal is a bit shit about MIDI support for all its features (e.g song list features are still not MIDI controllable), so consider any MIDI controller to be a bit of a 2nd tier citizen compared to the FC6/12. But the FC controllers are bulky as hell so I honestly would not want to carry both a FC6 and a FM9.

So MIDI is back on the menu, and then it's a question of what you want to do with it. What would additional footswitches solve for you?

I didn’t realize that fractal midi support is lacking. I would need to check into that further I guess. I don’t use songs today because you can’t set a temp for the songs, so it’s kinda pointless to me. It’s a shame because that feature could be amazing if they would add tempo. I actually mapped out all the sounds/presets I would need to use songs and setlists, that was a long list. Got it all done and then learned that you can’t set a freakin tempo for a song, so I set that whole list on fire…

I can name dozens of things that interest me still in HX land. Not all of them can be done in fractal. Some could but it’s quite a bit of blocks and time and it would be easier to just use the device that has those sounds ready.

I use every switch, multiple pages, and most have a hold function too. More sound access without paging is the main thing I want.

D

 

[dk_ace]

Why not snag a Morningstar MC8? It has 2 pages of 8 buttons per preset and you can set long and short hold times. So that’s 32 changes you can make per preset with only 8 switches. You can program it to do anything.

If I wanted a midi controller only, I don’t see what I would use anything other than an FC. It’s built to work together, one editor for both, extensive capabilities. I can’t think of anything I want out of a controller that an fc can’t give me?

D

 

[laxu]

If I wanted a midi controller only, I don’t see what I would use anything other than an FC. It’s built to work together, one editor for both, extensive capabilities. I can’t think of anything I want out of a controller that an fc can’t give me?

D

If you don't mind the size, weight and cost for a proprietary controller it's fine.

Anything else will be usable with any current and future gear, with the caveat that it won't track state the way the FC controllers do.

 

[Lysander]

So what are the TGF thoughts on what I’m considering here? On a scale of slightly deranged to commit this fool, where am I sitting?

You sir, are not. Helix has some of the best MIDI features in the business; i can totally see using a Stomp XL as a uber-flexible MIDI controller. Specially if you miss a few Helix effects/amps as well.

 

[Orvillain]

Helix whips the llama's ass when it comes to the command centre stuff. Much better than Fractal tbh!

 

[metropolis_4]

If I wanted a midi controller only, I don’t see what I would use anything other than an FC. It’s built to work together, one editor for both, extensive capabilities. I can’t think of anything I want out of a controller that an fc can’t give me?

D

If you can’t think of anything you want out of a MIDI controller that an fc can’t give you then why do you want to replace your fc with a Stomp XL for command center MIDI?

What is it you’re planning to use MIDI for?

 

[JiveTurkey]

Part of this mentality (the footswitch part) is why I snagged an FM9. I can and certainly have gotten by on a ton of gigs with the FM3 and an expression pedal. I recently put a 2 button switch in place as well for more gain and octaver and that kind of pushed me over the edge. Only thing is; the FM9 honestly feels like it has maybe 10% more CPU than the FM3. My FM3 preset still sits at around 70+% on the FM9. Which is fucking nuts tbh.

In your case; I would add an FC all day long over anything external MIDI mainly because programming external midi gear with the FAS is an exercise in wanting to throw stuff at a wall. The HX stuff is great for ease of programming but I don't want any of those sounds and it's still going to be a kludge doing the MIDI work on the FAS side to work with the super slick command center stuff in the HX.

 

[dk_ace]

If you can’t think of anything you want out of a MIDI controller that an fc can’t give you then why do you want to replace your fc with a Stomp XL for command center MIDI?

What is it you’re planning to use MIDI for?

The stomp xl gives me all the HX effects back as part of my rig and it can also be a midi controller. It’s interesting to me as two for the price of one scheme.

D

 

[dk_ace]

Part of this mentality (the footswitch part) is why I snagged an FM9. I can and certainly have gotten by on a ton of gigs with the FM3 and an expression pedal. I recently put a 2 button switch in place as well for more gain and octaver and that kind of pushed me over the edge. Only thing is; the FM9 honestly feels like it has maybe 10% more CPU than the FM3. My FM3 preset still sits at around 70+% on the FM9. Which is fucking nuts tbh.

In your case; I would add an FC all day long over anything external MIDI mainly because programming external midi gear with the FAS is an exercise in wanting to throw stuff at a wall. The HX stuff is great for ease of programming but I don't want any of those sounds and it's still going to be a kludge doing the MIDI work on the FAS side to work with the super slick command center stuff in the HX.

I’ve really got to look into this further I think. I expected that receiving midi on the fractal side was going to be really straightforward for things like presets, scenes, and some effects blocks or channel switching. Sounds like that might be wishful thinking.

D

 

[JiveTurkey]

I’ve really got to look into this further I think. I expected that receiving midi on the fractal side was going to be really straightforward for things like presets, scenes, and some effects blocks or channel switching. Sounds like that might be wishful thinking.

D

TBF to Fractal; my threshold for annoyance in configuring these types of things in Fractal land is practically non-existent. So you might find it to be a walk in the park?

 

[metropolis_4]

The stomp xl gives me all the HX effects back as part of my rig and it can also be a midi controller. It’s interesting to me as two for the price of one scheme.

D

What I’m sort of getting at is I think that’s what helps answer your question.

If you’re just looking for additional control you might be better off with the fc controller. If what you’re looking for is HX effects then you’ll only get that by adding an HX

 

[laxu]

I’ve really got to look into this further I think. I expected that receiving midi on the fractal side was going to be really straightforward for things like presets, scenes, and some effects blocks or channel switching. Sounds like that might be wishful thinking.

D

It is fine if you just want to do simple stuff like what you describe. You might want to go with Morningstar as afaik they have the best 3rd party MIDI integration to Fractal.

But any MIDI controller will work well enough for what you described.

Things get iffy when you'd want to e.g track fx on/off state across preset changes or that sort of stuff, that just doesn't work and is best left for the Fractal's own footswitches.

 

[dk_ace]

It is fine if you just want to do simple stuff like what you describe. You might want to go with Morningstar as afaik they have the best 3rd party MIDI integration to Fractal.

But any MIDI controller will work well enough for what you described.

Things get iffy when you'd want to e.g track fx on/off state across preset changes or that sort of stuff, that just doesn't work and is best left for the Fractal's own footswitches.

Tracking state is the thing I need to think about most probably. I’ve spent so many years in helix land and now like a year in fractal and I’m really used to that. I spent years in the past using normal midi controllers that didn’t have that, but I’m really used to having it. Some things it doesn’t matter much, but scenes and effects blocks do.

D

 

[dk_ace]

TBF to Fractal; my threshold for annoyance in configuring these types of things in Fractal land is practically non-existent. So you might find it to be a walk in the park?

You aren’t the only person complaining about it though, so it’s something I need to consider that I wasn’t even thinking about before. Thanks!

D

 

[laxu]

Tracking state is the thing I need to think about most probably. I’ve spent so many years in helix land and now like a year in fractal and I’m really used to that. I spent years in the past using normal midi controllers that didn’t have that, but I’m really used to having it. Some things it doesn’t matter much, but scenes and effects blocks do.

D

For scenes it's fine as you would be using your MIDI controller to select a scene so the MIDI controller knows where it's at. Changing presets is where it would get out of sync but you'll know which scene it defaults to in that scenario.

The FC controllers are definitely more straightforward in this sense, but in your situation I'd use the MIDI controller for things like scenes and presets, and save the FM9 footswitches for things where state matters.

The FC6/12 would be easier to recommend if they weren't so god damn expensive for what they are. There's honestly not a whole lot of hardware inside them as the FM9 would be doing all the heavy lifting.

 

[dk_ace]

For scenes it's fine as you would be using your MIDI controller to select a scene so the MIDI controller knows where it's at. Changing presets is where it would get out of sync but you'll know which scene it defaults to in that scenario.

The FC controllers are definitely more straightforward in this sense, but in your situation I'd use the MIDI controller for things like scenes and presets, and save the FM9 footswitches for things where state matters.

The FC6/12 would be easier to recommend if they weren't so god damn expensive for what they are. There's honestly not a whole lot of hardware inside them as the FM9 would be doing all the heavy lifting.

Live I use one preset (usually) per song though, so tracking states across presets might matter to me unless I only used the controller for scenes, presets, and other things where I’ll already know status. That might be possible, need to chart it out a little bit.

At the end of the day, I really like to operate out of one preset unless I’m just goofing off with an idea at home or something. Even with gapless switching I still tend to do it all out of one preset. I combine a lot of different sounds and shades of sounds and it works better for me in one preset than multiple. That said, there are some interesting this I like to occasionally do that don’t fit in the normal patch which is where an external device for audio comes in to give me some of those options without messing with the main patch. Stuff like a big ambient parallel reverb followed by a seek-wah or an unusually heavily filtered and effected delay line. A Vp4 is also a possible solution here, but I was liking the idea of an HX as it gives me some different options on top of the fractal stuff.

D

 

[Frodebro]

This is a timely thread, as I have very recently been debating on adding my HX Stomp XL to my FM9 for a little more, well, more. What I’m contemplating is adding it to loop three in the FM9, and using it for drive pedals and a couple other front-of-amp effects. Partially to free up some CPU, and partially to add some of the Line 6 flavors to the chain.

MIDI implementation would be stupidly simple for what I have in mind, basically just PC messages from the FM9 to control presets and CCs for Snapshots in the Stomp.